Evolution and Intelligent Design
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AlaninTX
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 Posted: 01/19/05 - 21:21 Post subject: Evolution and Intelligent Design
So how about the evolution/creationism debate that is again revisiting our county. This is really a debate over the seperation between church and state, but it continues to rage 70 years after the Scopes trial.
On one side you have people pushing that intelligent design be taught in public school textbooks. They argue evolution or Darwinism is simply a theory and not fact, with just as much validilty as the idea that human life, and all life on this planet, is so complex it must have sprung from an omniscient creator.
The other side believes evolution and Darwinism is a solid scientific theory, in the say way that plate tetonics is a "theory"--that is, no one has ever actually witnessed a tetonic plate shift but all evidence from earthquakes and tsunamis monitoring sure tends to support it. They also argue that intelligent design has no valid scientific basis, thus should not be introduced in public funded schools because it is rooted only in faith, not science.
These are only the arugements in a nutshell. But the debate is clear: science v. faith and public school education.
Let's have at it--BUT let's please respect each other's opinions and stay cool.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 01/19/05 - 22:04 Post subject: Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design
| AlaninTX wrote: | So how about the evolution/creationism debate that is again revisiting our county. This is really a debate over the seperation between church and state, but it continues to rage 70 years after the Scopes trial.
On one side you have people pushing that intelligent design be taught in public school textbooks. They argue evolution or Darwinism is simply a theory and not fact, with just as much validilty as the idea that human life, and all life on this planet, is so complex it must have sprung from an omniscient creator.
The other side believes evolution and Darwinism is a solid scientific theory, in the say way that plate tetonics is a "theory"--that is, no one has ever actually witnessed a tetonic plate shift but all evidence from earthquakes and tsunamis monitoring sure tends to support it. They also argue that intelligent design has no valid scientific basis, thus should not be introduced in public funded schools because it is rooted only in faith, not science.
These are only the arugements in a nutshell. But the debate is clear: science v. faith and public school education.
Let's have at it--BUT let's please respect each other's opinions and stay cool. |
Well just about anyting could be considered a theory. The "fact" that we even exist could be considered a theory; maybe we're just all brains in vats that are controlled by some scientist in a lab somewhere and nothing is really real. Or maybe I'm just listening to my philospy cds too much. 
We went over this recently, and no solid evidence for creationism was offered, other than the idea that evolution has holes. Until evidence FOR creationism, or even intelligent design, is found it doesn't belong in a SCIENCE classroom.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 01/19/05 - 22:37 Post subject: Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | We went over this recently, and no solid evidence for creationism was offered, other than the idea that evolution has holes. Until evidence FOR creationism... |
Creationism isn't about evidence CB. What you ask is akin to finding a rainforest in Iowa...err... well, you know what I mean.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 01/19/05 - 22:41 Post subject: Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design
| jrjo wrote: |
Creationism isn't about evidence CB. What you ask is akin to finding a rainforest in Iowa...err... well, you know what I mean. |
I know its not. Which is exactly why it doesn't belong in a SCIENCE classroom.
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bburgoyne26
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 00:02 Post subject:
I myself believe in theistic evolution, but at school we are to busy taking state mandated tests and following NCLB regulations to have time for much of anything else......oh, then we talk about God at church, there's a time and place for everything.....
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Orange Bubble
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 00:08 Post subject:
I fergot what I was gonna say...
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youngrunner
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 08:30 Post subject:
I believe that Charles Darwin's theory is correct. In the February issue of Discover magazine, there is a big article on testing evolution. Some of you might want to check it out. It discusses creationist ideas. Also, it talks about testing Darwin's theory with technology. It definitely is biased, making creationist look like a bunch of people despertly trying to prove technology wrong, but what can you expect? It's a science magazine! Anyways, thought some of you might want to read it if your interested in evolution.
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jrjo
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 10:53 Post subject: Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | I know its not. Which is exactly why it doesn't belong in a SCIENCE classroom. |
Does ART belong in a SCIENCE classroom? Should students be allowed to use multi-colored inks? Can MUSIC be used to illustrate wave technology?
I know I've said it before, but washing religion out of school is, in my mind, denying children a complete education. After all, it's intermingled with every other aspect of society and life, why do we try and scrub it out of this little classroom corner of the world?
Would you give me as much support if I went on a campaign to rid schools of music? Supposing I had a personal choice because of bad experiences in my youth, I wanted music out of the classrooms, would that be okay? Can I mandate my local school district refrain from teaching refrains? I dare say music is a bigger influence on youth today than religion and I could probably make a case that it should be out of schools.
Yes, for as ridiculous as that sounds, that's how much of the religious right sees excluding creationism from orgins of life discussions, whether they be in science class, art class or the locker room. It's part and parcel of life in America, pretending it doesn't exist because a child steps across the threshold of their public school doorway is putting your head in the sand. 
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Laurie Ellen
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 10:58 Post subject:
Basically accepting evolution means that I have to face the fact that somewhere in my family tree there's a trout. And I can't handle that. So I choose to give the whole stupid theory a miss, and I'm glad my kids don't go to public school if that's the SCIENCE they'd have to sit through.
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bburgoyne26
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 11:16 Post subject:
Oh Alan stirred up the hornets nest.....again!
Seriously, I wouldn't mind considering having an exploratory culture or history of religions class in school....I myself have found it interesting studying up on this stuff online.....it could be like a social studies credit...what grade do ya'll think it would be appropriate to start introducing?
In my part of Ft. Worth we have a lot of diversity....lot's of scientists and what not from India, Pakistan, Asia....plus just a few miles down the road is the Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary.....could be interesting!
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jrjo
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 11:27 Post subject:
Bbur.. there's some middle ground I think we could all agree on 
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 13:52 Post subject: Re: Evolution and Intelligent Design
| jrjo wrote: |
Does ART belong in a SCIENCE classroom? Should students be allowed to use multi-colored inks? Can MUSIC be used to illustrate wave technology?
I know I've said it before, but washing religion out of school is, in my mind, denying children a complete education. After all, it's intermingled with every other aspect of society and life, why do we try and scrub it out of this little classroom corner of the world?
Would you give me as much support if I went on a campaign to rid schools of music? Supposing I had a personal choice because of bad experiences in my youth, I wanted music out of the classrooms, would that be okay? Can I mandate my local school district refrain from teaching refrains? I dare say music is a bigger influence on youth today than religion and I could probably make a case that it should be out of schools.
Yes, for as ridiculous as that sounds, that's how much of the religious right sees excluding creationism from orgins of life discussions, whether they be in science class, art class or the locker room. It's part and parcel of life in America, pretending it doesn't exist because a child steps across the threshold of their public school doorway is putting your head in the sand. |
You make some interesting points, jr. My question is: are you comfortable having this part of religion in the school b/c it's something you agree with? That is, if it were a different religion, and what was being learned was different than what you believed, would you still support it?
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cherylpf
crazy cat lady
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:15 Post subject:
| bburgoyne26 wrote: | | I myself believe in theistic evolution, but at school we are to busy taking state mandated tests and following NCLB regulations to have time for much of anything else......oh, then we talk about God at church, there's a time and place for everything..... |
I believe in a theistic evolution too. Does this belong in public schools? I don't know, seeing how inept some of my teachers were*, I think I have a problem with the state interpreting and in turn teaching my (future) kids my faith. Basically, I support a separation of church and state if only out of respect for my beliefs and how I want my kids to learn them. How this applies to the public teaching of evolution, I don't know. I do know we covered it in school when I was there and I also know my parents already had explained their takes on it to me at home beforehand, so it wasn't so unclear for me.
*all due respect to our teachers. As in any profession, there are good, bad and there are ugly. Let's also remember I was educated in the state ranked 48th in education. Just thought I'd clarify that.
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RexRacer
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:21 Post subject:
I think a religion class is excellent. I took many as both an undergrad and in HS.
Either that or I think we should mandate the inclusion of Hindu and Shinto creation stories in all Biology classes across the nation. 
Man, if HS students thought learning all of the Latin and Greek-based vocab words were hard, wait til they start grappling with Sanskrit and Japanese!!!!!
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bburgoyne26
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 15:21 Post subject:
| cherylpf wrote: |
I believe in a theistic evolution too. Does this belong in public schools? I don't know, seeing how inept some of my teachers were*, I think I have a problem with the state interpreting and in turn teaching my (future) kids my faith. Basically, I support a separation of church and state if only out of respect for my beliefs and how I want my kids to learn them. How this applies to the public teaching of evolution, I don't know. I do know we covered it in school when I was there and I also know my parents already had explained their takes on it to me at home beforehand, so it wasn't so unclear for me.
*all due respect to our teachers. As in any profession, there are good, bad and there are ugly. Let's also remember I was educated in the state ranked 48th in education. Just thought I'd clarify that. |
I was trying to remember how I learned about it too.....I remember learning about Genesis at the church down the street and then science at the school.....I thought that kinda covered it, or at least my parents and I were comfortable with it.
Oh boy, would I love to be on the state committe that develops the curriculum for it!....wouldn't that be fun....how long would it take til we reach consensus.....Hey Allan...can you hook me up with that committee down in Austin? Will they pay for room and board at the Marriot down by the Capitol? Dinners on 6th street?
And then when we're done with the curriculum, we can add that section to the TAKS!
Seriously though, I'm not even sure at what grade level the word "evolution" even starts appearing in the science books. I'm gonna try to find out.
So what did we decide? Comparative religion class at what grade level?
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