Doing Lydiard System, why am I getting slower???

Member

Hello all,
I began running back in march. I started out running 2 interval runs per week (about 30 minutes each with 1 minute @ high intesnsity, 2 minutes recovery) and one 3.1 mile run on the weekends. The theory was, my longer runs should see a benefit from the interval runs.
Now, my time on the 3.1 mi runs was an abysmal *choke* 34:30. So, being the nerd I am, i bought an HRM (Polar s720i) and started reading up. I ran across the Lydiard system and figured i'd give it a shot. I'm now running 3x4.5 mile steady state runs per week.
I am frustrated because i still have 5 weeks of these steady state runs to go and it seems that my time at 3 miles has gone up from 34:30 to about 38:00!!!
Granted, i've been trying to run slow to keep my hr between 164 and 170 (although the last 3/4 miles my hr is between 170 and 174), but still. Shouldn't I be getting faster not slower?
Any advice, encouragement or discouragement would help. The only good news is I've lost 15 lbs so far. One last note. My work out routine looks something like this:
M,W,F 4.5 mi runs....T,Thu upper body training + abs and lower back strengthening. I'm 32 and weigh 227...

Help...

Gone Fishin

The dirty little secret about long distance running is the 'd' word; distance. From what you are saying, you are logging 13.5 miles per week. As much as you might find to say otherwise, that kind of mileage just isn't going to ramp up your endurance and speed very quickly if at all. The tried and true first litmus test of improving your endurance making it possible to run shorter races faster is you need to be logging minimally 30-mi per week. My schedule for how to fit that in is 6-runs per week in the ratios of 3/1/2/1/2/1. Overdistance is what it's all about. To be a good 5km racer, your long runs need to be 9-milers.

Member

Gone Fishin

Yep, you've got the idea on the daily mileages correct. And yes, don't worry right now about working on speed. Speedwork should be part of a 'sharpening' phase and to be ready for that, you need a large base of prior solid mileage. Ideally, speedwork is going to come after months and months of base building and then for the handful of weeks prior to your peak race, then you pull out the stops and work on speed. I'd leave any thought of speedwork aside until you've logged a couple good months of 30+ mile weeks. As for the strength work, morning running and evening weights sounds fine. There's a few guys that do it back-to-back, a run followed by weights for vice-versa. Experiment and find out what works for you. And finally, about the HRM, I got nothin' for you there. I'm a caveman runner and for 25-yrs have ran 'over my head' much of the time I'm sure. I'd shelf the HRM but for an occasional run if you get curious. There ya go

Member

Thanks again. I'll do my homework on the HR stuff (unless anyone out there is checking this out), I'll stick to distance for now then worry about speed later on like your recommeneded. I think the hardest part is shelving the go not the HRM Smile

I just have that "must go faster" devil talking at me all the time. I'll keep on shutting him up Smile

Member

Member

Thanks for the encouraging advice. I was so disappointed with my run this morning. Now, i have something to work on, and that makes me feel a lot better.
I'll dig around to see what I can find about HRs and other data to monitor. From what I have seen so far, this is huge variability when it comes to data and formulas. Seems like the only way to get accurate information is to to have it clinically tested.
Maybe i can convince my doctor that it's medically necessary to give me a stress test that way I can get my hr and v02 max, but for right now, it does't matter.
I have to base build first, then when i'm in some form of respectable shape and the data matters, it'd be nice to know. On the other hand, it'd be nice to know where i started. *hmm* i predict a call to my dr Smile

Thanks for the advice & encouragement

Member

Just to back up 'jrjo's' comments the answer to your problem is miles.

From what you have told us you seem to have missed out on running you base miles.

I note you started running in March, hardly enough time to build up any aerobic strength before going on to anareobic work.
Your general efficiency and your running results depend basically on your ability to absorb oxygen from the air and transport it to various muscles and organs and then use it.
Steady state running (not LSD) with progression will lay a solid base for your aneraeobic work.

Pyromaniac

Just to throw my $.02 in here.... the running advice you have gotten is dead-on. I'd continue on with your weight lifting on your shorter run days. I adapted to lifting right after running (there are two schools of thought on that subject also, some prefering before your run, some after) and it worked well during 30-35 mile weeks and less. I've gone back to 2 days a week temporarily while I train for my first marathon.

my boys could swim

there is a theory out there that says long slow distance=long slow runners.

However, I do agree with what you've gotten here. You are not running enough mileage to improve your aerobic base. If you are going to continue to run the shorter runs, which there is nothing wrong with, you are going to need to jack up the pace.

Member

The Movie Geek

The Movie Geek

Oh, and I honestly wouldn't be terribly concerned about speed during the first year and just work on running the distances and if you're feeling good maybe run a little harder, making sure to take at least one rest day a week.

The training advice here is sound, but remember, this is supposed to be something you enjoy doing and want to continue to do so don't stress too badly about the numbers...especially in year #1.

Member

Member

Hey all,
it's been a while since my original post; I decided to post an update based on all the replies i've received. First, i'll start with the tendonitis. it was on the outside of my ankle. but I stopped running for a week and hit the bike. It took the pressure off the ankles. Once I felt alright i hit the treadmills for a week then went on the road. So far so good. I did one week on the bike, one week on treadmills, hit the road for a week and this week i ran a 6 miler outside then all follow-up runs on the treadmills (at least 4 miles/day).

As for mileage, I run everyday now at least 4 miles and my resting heart rate has come down. Many of you have advised me to put the HRM away, but i'm too data driven not to have numbers. What's nice is i can crank out the miles at a comfortable pace and at about 70-80% of my max hr. That is, 6 miles doesn't feel as brutal as it used to. (at least on a treadmill). Next week i'll be doing longer runs on the road and shorter runs on the mills. ( i used to hate treadmills, but i think that was just machismo Smile

i'm really starting to like the low impact while still getting in the miles).

Intervals: skipping them! Slow base miles and take it easy is what i'm doing (In the words of fox mulder: I believe ) I'll wait until base building is over (even though i feel the urge to gun it here and there). I'll focus on learning how to interval train for now so when the time comes i'll be ready.

Strength training: i'm going to do a little more reading on that. From what I read in "Fast track" by susan favor hamilton (a book i highly recommend) is that strength training helps. In addition to this, what i've read about running mechanics is that running speed is affected by the speed of muscle contraction which is a factor of muscle strength.

Now i'm lifting to get huge legs. rather, i'm lifting in the 6-8 rep range with heavirer weights to add strength and I'm doing some streching. basically, I run in the AM, strech, then at lunch i run out to the gym for strength work. Seems to work for now...i'll see how it goes.

beyond that, i've gotten much encouregment on the weight loss, and I very much appreciate it. Phar: i'll take your advice, we're all runners if we're out there running every day Smile

Doing Lydiard System, why am I getting slower???

LIFEFORM SOCIAL COMMUNITY NETWORK