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kristin31
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 Posted: 03/10/04 - 23:01 Post subject:
Ditto to MW. You'd be surprised in the circumstances that you may find yourself, through no fault of your own. Don't ever look down at someone. You may well find yourselves in that same position one day. And don;t say that it's different because it's someone that you know, because ANYONE, you included, no matter how sheltered and special you might feel, could be that person. Really. In a few weeks. If you want to make excuses that's fine as wwll, but it can easily happen to any of us. It happened to me, and it wasn't so nice.
You're not special because you have a nice corporate job. I did once as well, and it probably paid better than most. Dont judge. BAAAAAD KARMA.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 23:40 Post subject: Re: Does it bug you when you see someone at the grocery stor
[quote="Maddie's Wench"] | sonnylax wrote: | | When my son's father and I split up, I needed some help getting back on my feet. |
I guess my primary point is why does that "help" have to come from the government. There are tons of fantastic (private) charitable organizations out there. I bet there would be even more charities if the size of government was drastically reduced and our taxes were significantly dropped. When we look to our government for "help," it creates a terrible case of dependency that is a vicious cycle to break.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 23:47 Post subject:
| kristin31 wrote: | | You'd be surprised in the circumstances that you may find yourself, through no fault of your own. |
That's a major stretch, IMHO. Many folks in poor "circumstances" are there due to poor choices they made in their own life. Shifting the blame to others for their plight is just plain wrong.
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 23:48 Post subject:
I, for one, am pleased to see the healthy responses to this thread. It appears that many of us have been in that situation and are able to cut some slack for those who may be using the system as it was meant to be used: help getting back on your feet.
it also appears that many of us know people who abuse the system and that makes it easier to assume the strangers we see at the store are likely doing the same. we should never assume. this is one discussion where I can see the point of both sides; there are times I see someone using an "access" card and think about my tax dollars buying them their junk food. But I also remember when we were getting food stamps and had a healthcare card for the 2 babies we had, and the poor treatment we received because of having that card. I hated even showing that card because as soon as I did, we were treated differently, and it wasn't with respect.
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Maddies Wench
Flailing Homosapiens
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Location: Seeking out the poorer quarters where the ragged people go.
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 23:52 Post subject: Re: Does it bug you when you see someone at the grocery stor
[quote="sonnylax"] | Maddie's Wench wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | | When my son's father and I split up, I needed some help getting back on my feet. |
I guess my primary point is why does that "help" have to come from the government. There are tons of fantastic (private) charitable organizations out there. I bet there would be even more charities if the size of government was drastically reduced and our taxes were significantly dropped. When we look to our government for "help," it creates a terrible case of dependency that is a vicious cycle to break. |
You are making assumptions and generalizations that I don't have the time or the energy to correct. Have it your way.
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kristin31
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 02:03 Post subject: Re: Does it bug you when you see someone at the grocery stor
[quote="sonnylax"] | Maddie's Wench wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | | When my son's father and I split up, I needed some help getting back on my feet. |
I guess my primary point is why does that "help" have to come from the government. There are tons of fantastic (private) charitable organizations out there. I bet there would be even more charities if the size of government was drastically reduced and our taxes were significantly dropped. When we look to our government for "help," it creates a terrible case of dependency that is a vicious cycle to break. |
That "help" is there for a resaon. Not all of us have rich parents or the time and resources to find these things. Honestly, when someone might clean out your bank account in one day and you have a small child to raise, ends to meet, you're going to have time to look for the small, privately funded agencies? Give me an f'ing break!!!!!
I'm not trying to be rude, but I've been there. And from that I went to what was considered, by most, a very successful career. You NEVER, EVER know what can happen to you. It's NOT always about the choices that you, personally, make. Why shouldn't the government help? We pay them enough money every friggin check. If I've covered unemployment I'm going to cash in when I need it.
Last edited by kristin31 on 03/11/04 - 03:47; edited 1 time in total
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kristin31
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 02:12 Post subject: Re: Does it bug you when you see someone at the grocery stor
[quote="sonnylax"] | Maddie's Wench wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | | When my son's father and I split up, I needed some help getting back on my feet. |
I guess my primary point is why does that "help" have to come from the government. There are tons of fantastic (private) charitable organizations out there. I bet there would be even more charities if the size of government was drastically reduced and our taxes were significantly dropped. When we look to our government for "help," it creates a terrible case of dependency that is a vicious cycle to break. |
Really. Don't go here with me. I honestly hope that you never need public assistance of any sort because so far, the karma army backing you up just went to chase Attila the Hun.
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elkid
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 10:04 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | Private organizations such as churches and civic groups (i.e. not the local, state, or federal government). In the most general terms possible... if we the taxpapers had more of our own hard-earned money to spend, we probably would spend more time & money on charitable efforts as a collective whole in this country. I know I would. |
| sonnylax wrote: | | I guess my primary point is why does that "help" have to come from the government. There are tons of fantastic (private) charitable organizations out there. I bet there would be even more charities if the size of government was drastically reduced and our taxes were significantly dropped. When we look to our government for "help," it creates a terrible case of dependency that is a vicious cycle to break. |
These assume several things:
1) a person in need would belong a church or civic group (or they'd be screwed)
2) that people are intrinsically altruistic (which they are not)
One of the responsibilities of being a member of an organized society is the welfare of the citizenry. However a person may feel about the government, it is a representation of the populus that takes care of its citizens. To that end, there are services tax dollars fund that not everyone will access in their lifetime. If you take away all the services our tax dollars provide we'd truly be a nation of haves and have nots. Super rich, and super poor. If you're looking for a society like that, sonny, move below the border. There are examples aplenty where you could live contentedly surrounded by your saved taxed dollars.
BTW, there are already many private charities, and I don't see them hopping in to help people meet their basic day-to-day needs for more than the short-term.
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purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 10:10 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | These assume several things:
1) a person in need would belong a church or civic group (or they'd be screwed) |
I guarantee that if you went to my church, told them your story and asked for a week's worth of groceries and help paying your light bill that they'd be more than glad to help or call another local church that had the funds available. All that without being a member of the church or even being a Christian.
How many millions do the Shriners raise every year to help kids that aren't the children of Shriners?
There's help out there, all you've got to do is ask.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 10:15 Post subject:
| elkid wrote: | | One of the responsibilities of being a member of an organized society is the welfare of the citizenry. |
Show me were in the US Constitution. I honestly don't care about how they do it in other organized societies, just the good ole US of A.
If you feel personally compelled to help the welfare of the citizenry, great. That is your choice. Just don't use the force of government to make me do it as well.
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coachmarkos
my boys could swim
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 10:37 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | elkid wrote: | | One of the responsibilities of being a member of an organized society is the welfare of the citizenry. |
Show me were in the US Constitution. I honestly don't care about how they do it in other organized societies, just the good ole US of A.
If you feel personally compelled to help the welfare of the citizenry, great. That is your choice. Just don't use the force of government to make me do it as well. |
"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice and ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty.
It's right there in the preamble, dude.
Welfare reform is so 10 years ago. Sometimes people need help.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 10:39 Post subject:
To answer the question, "yes" it irks me....but I try not to be judgemental.....for every 9 abusers there is one person like MW that the system is set up for..temporary help....and in a course of a lifetime contributes way the heck more than they take out. It is the abusers that put the shame and humiliation into it. If we had better watchdogs....people in "temporary" situations wouldn't suffer humiliation---the abusers and permanent fixtures certainly do not.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 10:58 Post subject:
Most of us are just one layoff or one catastrophic illness away from the street.
The lack of respect for the poor in this country is pretty galling.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 11:11 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | Most of us are just one layoff or one catastrophic illness away from the street.
The lack of respect for the poor in this country is pretty galling. |
so is this country's ability to save for those things and so is our perspective of what poor really is. And that is why your statement is so true.......because when we have the money....we go out and buy a new vehicle rather than driving the old one and squander away some money. We have children when we feel like it....not after we've built a little extra for the added expenses......I can go on and on. Some countries think clean drinking water is a luxury. We think every person is poor unless they own a car, a phone, a have a place of their own------the rest of the world would call this luxuries.
Now tell me why I should "respect" the poor of this country, again???
I have done without the above things and my father would have slapped my face if I referred to my family as poor. "You've got food in your stomach and clothes on your back and a place to sleep". If people in this country don't have that.....they have some sort of addiction, have mental problems, or it's by choice. Give me a break!
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thegman
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Posted: 03/11/04 - 11:40 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | Most of us are just one layoff or one catastrophic illness away from the street.
The lack of respect for the poor in this country is pretty galling. |
so is this country's ability to save for those things and so is our perspective of what poor really is... We think every person is poor unless they own a car, a phone, a have a place of their own------the rest of the world would call this luxuries.
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And I have the facts to back you up.
An interesting report from the Heritage Foundation based on the Census Bureau's annual report on poverty in the United States states the following about persons defined as "poor":
6% of all "poor" households actually own their own homes.
75% of all "poor" households have air conditioning.
Only 6% of "poor" households are overcrowded.
The average "poor" American has more living space than the average non-poor individual living in Paris, London, Vienna and Athens.
Nearly 3/4 of "poor" households own a car.
Poor households also come well-equipped with the latest technology, with 97% having color TVs and 78% having a VCR or DVD player.
Sadly, only a quarter of "poor" households have a computer.
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