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purple hayes
Frightened Inmate #2
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Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 14462
Location: ON YOUR LEFT!
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 Posted: 03/10/04 - 15:42 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | ...a cell phone ...It's not really a luxury. |
So if cell phones aren't luxury, does that make them a necessity? If my kids don't have cell phones, am I denying them one of life's necessities? 
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 16450
Location: Lake Wobegon, MN
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 15:45 Post subject:
| purple hayes wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: | | ...a cell phone ...It's not really a luxury. |
So if cell phones aren't luxury, does that make them a necessity? If my kids don't have cell phones, am I denying them one of life's necessities? |
<looks around for Shelfie>
Cell phone marketing has this country bamboozled!! 
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robp
Pyromaniac
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Joined: 26 Jul 2002
Posts: 16241
Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 15:48 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | robp wrote: | | If they've got the money for that kind of crap they should be able to afford some groceries on their own. |
It's hard not to make judgments like this, but we don't know where someone gets the things they get. Maybe clothes were from the Salvation Army, maybe shoes were a gift, and a cell phone is how a mom knows her kid needs her or needs to be picked up or whatever. It's not really a luxury. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Maybe the world is flat also. Maybe said person is working a job under the table illegally. Maybe they are dealing dope to pay for the nicer things in life.
I keep hearing this idea that somehow if someone needs government assistance they should somehow never want to listen to CDs, go to a concert or in short have any of the enjoyment that makes life worth living.
Medicaid is also government assistance but I'm sure we don't feel that sick people don't deserve to have nice things. Perhaps people who need our assistance deserve those things even more. |
Key word there is need. I'm all for providing assistance to people who need it. It's not as bad as it was 10 yrs ago but there are still a helluva lot of people collecting government assistance who don't need it.
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sonnylax
Member
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 15:57 Post subject:
| robp wrote: | | Key word there is need. I'm all for providing assistance to people who need it. It's not as bad as it was 10 yrs ago but there are still a helluva lot of people collecting government assistance who don't need it. |
Agree 100%! Furthermore, how do we know that private society couldn't (or wouldn't) step into to replace said government assistance if it was seriously curtailed (or gasp ended)?
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Gogirlgo
Member
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 4776
Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 15:58 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Key word there is need. I'm all for providing assistance to people who need it. It's not as bad as it was 10 yrs ago but there are still a helluva lot of people collecting government assistance who don't need it. |
Agree 100%! Furthermore, how do we know that private society couldn't (or wouldn't) step into to replace said government assistance if it was seriously curtailed (or gasp ended)? |
Can you back that with any stats, Rob, and can you, Sonny, detail what private society, whoever that is, would be doing exactly?
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robp
Pyromaniac
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Joined: 26 Jul 2002
Posts: 16241
Location: Waiting in line at the beer store...
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 16:28 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: | | robp wrote: | | Key word there is need. I'm all for providing assistance to people who need it. It's not as bad as it was 10 yrs ago but there are still a helluva lot of people collecting government assistance who don't need it. |
Agree 100%! Furthermore, how do we know that private society couldn't (or wouldn't) step into to replace said government assistance if it was seriously curtailed (or gasp ended)? |
Can you back that with any stats, Rob, and can you, Sonny, detail what private society, whoever that is, would be doing exactly? |
G3, where am I going to come up with stats on people collecting assistance illegally? Do you think they own up to it? Do you think they provide an agency with data on how they milk the system?
I have known personally 4 former relatives or friends of relatives who have or are currently cheating the system. They were turned in anonymously and I don't know if anything was done about it. If I know of 4 people in my small little world I'd be willing to bet there is a thriving underworld of illegal activity.
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coachmarkos
my boys could swim
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Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 11387
Location: 1st in AFC West
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 16:31 Post subject:
It always bothered me when I was in college, seeing the single Mom's use their food stamps on Soda/Pop. (they still had the stamps back then, not the cards) (Yes, I worked at a grocery store for a few months.)
Umm...if you are that poor that you need gov't assistance to pay for your GD food, why don't you cut that crap out?
Then, they'd usually come back in the store after loading their groceries and buy a case of smokes with cash. 
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copdotcom1
Member
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 782
Location: Arlington, TX
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 16:39 Post subject:
| Sahara wrote: | | sonnylax wrote: |
I decided to leave out the part about the woman wearing multiple gold chains and assorted jewelry. Do some of you think its OK to judge people doing this if they wearing flashy jewelry and/or using cell phones? |
I'd judge them to have trashy fashion sense. I'm a minimalist jewelery-wise. The cell phone, hmm, if I have to listen to them say, "I love you too sweetiepie" over and over, I'd have to judge them as a sap. |
Hmmm...actually I love hearing someone say "I love you sweetiepie" over and over again. So who jaded you? Hee Hee 
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sonnylax
Member
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 17:01 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | Can you back that with any stats, Rob, and can you, Sonny, detail what private society, whoever that is, would be doing exactly? |
Private organizations such as churches and civic groups (i.e. not the local, state, or federal government). In the most general terms possible... if we the taxpapers had more of our own hard-earned money to spend, we probably would spend more time & money on charitable efforts as a collective whole in this country. I know I would.
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Cappy
Excelent
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Joined: 16 May 2002
Posts: 27368
Location: Spreadsheetylvania
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 17:04 Post subject: Re: Does it bug you when you see someone at the grocery stor
| sonnylax wrote: | pop out their "government issued welfare credit card" for some items and then a 2nd private (Mastercard/Visa) card for alternate (i.e. unapproved) purchases as much as it does me?
After standing in a long, frustrating cashier line to purchase my tuna sandwich, apple, and drink for lunch... I felt like tell the women doing this... "Hope you enjoy my tax dollars!"
 |
It only bothers me when the person using the government issued cards, speaks little or no English. They don't know the language but found someway to get an entitlement.
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Sandy Cheeks
Member
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Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 4605
Location: in the city that never sleeps
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 18:04 Post subject: fixed for Bam Bam who thinks I'm obnoxious :p
| Sahara wrote: | | People have all sorts of circumstances. |
Amen, sister.
You don't know that the expensive clothing they might be wearing isn't handed down from a relative or donated from a wealthy woman (there are lots of programs that do this) to send her off to a job interview. There are any number of other circumstances that might lead to this.
I ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt... I know sometimes I will get burned, but I'd rather continue thinking good of people.
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kattzoo
Member
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Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 3812
Location: Happily at the back of the pack
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 18:40 Post subject:
How they're dressed wouldn't make much of an impression on me. There are plenty of consignment stores etc...that sell very nice used clothing. It may or may not be her cell phone, or it may be a prepay her family gave her. Maybe she was coming from a job interview, visiting a sick relative, or the like.
As far as the system being messed up, I agree 100%. I mentioned before that I have in-laws that abuse it horribly. That doesn't mean everyone does.
I worked with a lady who was on welfare when I was in college. She had a swimming pool that her parents put in for her before her husband left and things got so bad. People would hear her talking about the kids swimming etc and get so mad that she was drawing a check while her kids were playing in their pool. This is while she worked 2 jobs, left her kids with her parents, and tried to go back to school to get a better education. We don't always know where people are in the system, or how long they'll be there.
Judging people is easy. I know it keeps me from taking a good hard look at myself.
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AlaninTX
Member
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Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 6582
Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 18:49 Post subject:
That doesn't bother nearly as much as the person in front of me in the 10 items or less express line with a cart full of groceries
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Library Chick
Member
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Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 652
Location: On the Waterfront
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 18:53 Post subject:
I used to be the "Food Stamp Lady" in a county welfare office back home. Sure, there was abuse, but we're talking about people who were living way below the poverty level. They weren't picking up food stamps then driving back home to their mansions.
A friend of mine once told me about how when she was in college she got food stamps. She would live on mac and cheese all month, saving up her stamps, then at the end of the month would buy lobster. I'm sure she got lots of dirty looks.
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Maddies Wench
Flailing Homosapiens
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 6102
Location: Seeking out the poorer quarters where the ragged people go.
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Posted: 03/10/04 - 20:09 Post subject: Re: Does it bug you when you see someone at the grocery stor
| sonnylax wrote: | pop out their "government issued welfare credit card" for some items and then a 2nd private (Mastercard/Visa) card for alternate (i.e. unapproved) purchases as much as it does me?
After standing in a long, frustrating cashier line to purchase my tuna sandwich, apple, and drink for lunch... I felt like tell the women doing this... "Hope you enjoy my tax dollars!"
|
That woman could have been me.
When my son's father and I split up, I needed some help getting back on my feet. That help came somewhat in the form of foodstamps. It was humiliating to have to pull those out in front of everyone in line but I had no choice. I had to feed my kid. I was working, and paying rent and providing the best I could for him with no child support at the time. They are only good for food, and believe me, I got the healthiest possible for the small amount of food stamps that I had.
They did not cover things like diapers, cleaning products, and other things needed to run a household.
So, yes, thank you tax payers for helping me out when I needed it.
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