Did they find Noah's Ark?
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jrjo
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 Posted: 07/10/06 - 12:12 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | Do you believe God changed the laws of nature and physics to what they presently are? Was there no sun? Was there no weather at all? Was there no wind? |
..sure sounds like it to me..
| Genesis 1 wrote: | 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good. |
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keltic63
the kilted one
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 12:51 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | Do you believe God changed the laws of nature and physics to what they presently are? Was there no sun? Was there no weather at all? Was there no wind? |
..sure sounds like it to me..
| Genesis 1 wrote: | 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good. |
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Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
this is not a question of anyone's belief in God's hand in creation, rather it is a question of whether God changed the weather systems of the world He created, 1,500 years after that creation.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 13:04 Post subject:
| keltic63 wrote: |
Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
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Right - that is what I meant to ask.
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 13:37 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: |
Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
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Right - that is what I meant to ask. |
Same answer... yep. In the beginning God created a "perfect" environment/planet. And the weather/climate was such that at the time of Noah, no one believed his preaching because "disasters" were unheard of. With God's wrath of wiping out everything outside the ark, introducing rain, storm, disaster, whatever you call it, the "perfect" weather was over.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 13:47 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: |
Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
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Right - that is what I meant to ask. |
Same answer... yep. In the beginning God created a "perfect" environment/planet. And the weather/climate was such that at the time of Noah, no one believed his preaching because "disasters" were unheard of. With God's wrath of wiping out everything outside the ark, introducing rain, storm, disaster, whatever you call it, the "perfect" weather was over. |
So the sun didn't warm the water? The water didn't evaporate? There were no convection currents due to the uneven thermal properties of land and sea?
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jrjo
Gone Fishin
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 14:00 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: |
Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
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Right - that is what I meant to ask. |
Same answer... yep. In the beginning God created a "perfect" environment/planet. And the weather/climate was such that at the time of Noah, no one believed his preaching because "disasters" were unheard of. With God's wrath of wiping out everything outside the ark, introducing rain, storm, disaster, whatever you call it, the "perfect" weather was over. |
So the sun didn't warm the water? The water didn't evaporate? There were no convection currents due to the uneven thermal properties of land and sea? |
Somewhere I've got some Bible studies on the whole thermodynamics of Eden and pre-flood environments. I tried to surf a quick link but I'm not finding anything easily. If you're really interested I can do some browsing next time I'm in the church library and give you some titles. I'm no climatologist, but I remember it making complete sense to me.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 14:06 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: |
Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
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Right - that is what I meant to ask. |
Same answer... yep. In the beginning God created a "perfect" environment/planet. And the weather/climate was such that at the time of Noah, no one believed his preaching because "disasters" were unheard of. With God's wrath of wiping out everything outside the ark, introducing rain, storm, disaster, whatever you call it, the "perfect" weather was over. |
So the sun didn't warm the water? The water didn't evaporate? There were no convection currents due to the uneven thermal properties of land and sea? |
Somewhere I've got some Bible studies on the whole thermodynamics of Eden and pre-flood environments. I tried to surf a quick link but I'm not finding anything easily. If you're really interested I can do some browsing next time I'm in the church library and give you some titles. I'm no climatologist, but I remember it making complete sense to me. |
Yeah, I'm interested. I don't see it. Not to mention I wouldn't want to live somewhere that never has rainfall.
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 14:24 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: |
Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
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Right - that is what I meant to ask. |
Same answer... yep. In the beginning God created a "perfect" environment/planet. And the weather/climate was such that at the time of Noah, no one believed his preaching because "disasters" were unheard of. With God's wrath of wiping out everything outside the ark, introducing rain, storm, disaster, whatever you call it, the "perfect" weather was over. |
So the sun didn't warm the water? The water didn't evaporate? There were no convection currents due to the uneven thermal properties of land and sea? |
But being God such things would not matter. Consider he made everything from nothing in six days
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jrjo
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 16:03 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | But being God such things would not matter. Consider he made everything from nothing in six days |
But as long as he didn't violate the 'laws of physics', then it'd be believable.
..yeah... just what I thought..no winnin' this one 
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 07/10/06 - 21:11 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: |
Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
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Right - that is what I meant to ask. |
Same answer... yep. In the beginning God created a "perfect" environment/planet. And the weather/climate was such that at the time of Noah, no one believed his preaching because "disasters" were unheard of. With God's wrath of wiping out everything outside the ark, introducing rain, storm, disaster, whatever you call it, the "perfect" weather was over. |
So the sun didn't warm the water? The water didn't evaporate? There were no convection currents due to the uneven thermal properties of land and sea? |
But being God such things would not matter. Consider he made everything from nothing in six days |
I don't believe the question was about the omnipotence of God. Do you, thread participant, believe that the water cycle was not established by God until Noah, or do you think he did routine maintenance by sucking the water out of the air and putting it back in the ocean?
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DCRunningDiva
Look at me!!! ©
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Posted: 07/11/06 - 15:35 Post subject:
| andydp wrote: | I'm not sure I understand, are you for free will or are you saying some people think we're pre destined to believe, not believe and nothing we do can change that. In that case Jesus would not have sent disciples out to save the masses. Why bother ? The ones that will be saved will be here, the ones that won't be saved aren't worth the effort.
Anyway, I've been ruminating: Aren't there more important things to learn from the Bible ? Is it really that important if did or didn't rain for 1500 years ? Or is it way more important that Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life. Those that believe in me will be saved ?" |
There are people (not me) who believe that we were predestined from the beginning to be children of God. We didn't have a say in the matter.
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 07/11/06 - 15:48 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | MechEngDropout wrote: | | keltic63 wrote: |
Let's re-ask the question in a more specific way: Do you believe God changed the weather from the original creation to what the weather was/is now at the point in question (approx. 1,500 years after creation) or the time of Noah?
|
Right - that is what I meant to ask. |
Same answer... yep. In the beginning God created a "perfect" environment/planet. And the weather/climate was such that at the time of Noah, no one believed his preaching because "disasters" were unheard of. With God's wrath of wiping out everything outside the ark, introducing rain, storm, disaster, whatever you call it, the "perfect" weather was over. |
So the sun didn't warm the water? The water didn't evaporate? There were no convection currents due to the uneven thermal properties of land and sea? |
But being God such things would not matter. Consider he made everything from nothing in six days |
I don't believe the question was about the omnipotence of God. Do you, thread participant, believe that the water cycle was not established by God until Noah, or do you think he did routine maintenance by sucking the water out of the air and putting it back in the ocean? |
who knows - thing is we're not half as smart as we think we are. Had a college professor - PhD in physics and a Christian. He had a whole presentation about know facts that were untrue - wish I could remeberthe examples - on was Caloric a fluid with out volume or mass that was used to explain theromdymanics befor the current understanding of the process came to be.
Because we can describe things now reasonably well doesn't mean we're correct and doesn't mean it was always so.
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jrjo
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Posted: 07/11/06 - 22:42 Post subject:
| wanttorun100 wrote: | | Because we can describe things now reasonably well doesn't mean we're correct and doesn't mean it was always so. |
Exactly! Look at plate techtonics of the earth's crust. This 'discovery' is what?..50-yrs old? And it seem pretty obvious now that it's been "figured out". All those prior theories of how continents drift, earthquakes, volcanoes and such were way off before tectonics became the all encompassing explanation.
We humans are a uber egotistical bunch to think we've figured out this planet and how it all works. I don't know about the rest of you all, but how many "scientists" have you met? At an university or corporate lab or goverment agency? Personally, I've met quite a few actually and it's not a crew of Einstien clones out there proposing so much of what is accepted as 'science' and ran with by so many people as fact. It's quite scary in fact when you dig into some of the examples of what day dreams get promoted to fulfill some kind of agenda and ta-daa.. the latest addition to a faulted line of 'science'. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... having researched different theories myself and met a fair share of "scientists" proposing some far out explanations, it takes waaay more faith to believe the theory of big-bang or random happenstance we're here versus intelligent design.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 07:28 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | | Because we can describe things now reasonably well doesn't mean we're correct and doesn't mean it was always so. |
Exactly! Look at plate techtonics of the earth's crust. This 'discovery' is what?..50-yrs old? And it seem pretty obvious now that it's been "figured out". All those prior theories of how continents drift, earthquakes, volcanoes and such were way off before tectonics became the all encompassing explanation.
We humans are a uber egotistical bunch to think we've figured out this planet and how it all works. I don't know about the rest of you all, but how many "scientists" have you met? At an university or corporate lab or goverment agency? Personally, I've met quite a few actually and it's not a crew of Einstien clones out there proposing so much of what is accepted as 'science' and ran with by so many people as fact. It's quite scary in fact when you dig into some of the examples of what day dreams get promoted to fulfill some kind of agenda and ta-daa.. the latest addition to a faulted line of 'science'. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... having researched different theories myself and met a fair share of "scientists" proposing some far out explanations, it takes waaay more faith to believe the theory of big-bang or random happenstance we're here versus intelligent design. |
I don't think it's "egotistical" to try to understand how our world works and where we came from. I think it's what makes us human. If your version of God is that everything is created the way it's supposed to be, then it would seem it's kind of "egotistical" to label His work, ie us, as something less than perfect, less than what He intended.
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 09:05 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | | Because we can describe things now reasonably well doesn't mean we're correct and doesn't mean it was always so. |
Exactly! Look at plate techtonics of the earth's crust. This 'discovery' is what?..50-yrs old? And it seem pretty obvious now that it's been "figured out". All those prior theories of how continents drift, earthquakes, volcanoes and such were way off before tectonics became the all encompassing explanation.
We humans are a uber egotistical bunch to think we've figured out this planet and how it all works. I don't know about the rest of you all, but how many "scientists" have you met? At an university or corporate lab or goverment agency? Personally, I've met quite a few actually and it's not a crew of Einstien clones out there proposing so much of what is accepted as 'science' and ran with by so many people as fact. It's quite scary in fact when you dig into some of the examples of what day dreams get promoted to fulfill some kind of agenda and ta-daa.. the latest addition to a faulted line of 'science'. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... having researched different theories myself and met a fair share of "scientists" proposing some far out explanations, it takes waaay more faith to believe the theory of big-bang or random happenstance we're here versus intelligent design. |
Yes, not everything in science is known - and probably can never be known. But at least science is making a strong attempt to make some connections and back up everything with the prediction/experiment routine. Maybe that gets us only a bit of knowledge, but it's a bit of knowledge that is backed up by reason. Every time an argument like this arises, it defines the border of religion that I cannot cross. You accept that these things happened by way of an all powerful God, but don't have any reason for that other than faith. Sure, there's a bible and prophets and the thousand year old institutions, but these people are the same humans that, as you note, are no Einsteins. Who is the religous equivalent of Einstein? St. Peter? Well, not everyone who has formed your belief system is a St. Peter, and even St Peter had his skeletons, not to mention his own agendas. Saying that the Bible is the perfect scripture because it is the word of God is equivalent to accepting all of science because it hasn't been disproved yet. Given the two options, give me science with faults. At least they're describing the universe and backing up predictions with experiments. I can't believe in something with the same human faults that has been passed down over thousands of years with no reasoning to that, just a book that is the word of God.
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