Did they find Noah's Ark?
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DCRunningDiva
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 Posted: 07/12/06 - 09:16 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | wanttorun100 wrote: | | Because we can describe things now reasonably well doesn't mean we're correct and doesn't mean it was always so. |
Exactly! Look at plate techtonics of the earth's crust. This 'discovery' is what?..50-yrs old? And it seem pretty obvious now that it's been "figured out". All those prior theories of how continents drift, earthquakes, volcanoes and such were way off before tectonics became the all encompassing explanation.
We humans are a uber egotistical bunch to think we've figured out this planet and how it all works. I don't know about the rest of you all, but how many "scientists" have you met? At an university or corporate lab or goverment agency? Personally, I've met quite a few actually and it's not a crew of Einstien clones out there proposing so much of what is accepted as 'science' and ran with by so many people as fact. It's quite scary in fact when you dig into some of the examples of what day dreams get promoted to fulfill some kind of agenda and ta-daa.. the latest addition to a faulted line of 'science'. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... having researched different theories myself and met a fair share of "scientists" proposing some far out explanations, it takes waaay more faith to believe the theory of big-bang or random happenstance we're here versus intelligent design. |
Yes, not everything in science is known - and probably can never be known. But at least science is making a strong attempt to make some connections and back up everything with the prediction/experiment routine. Maybe that gets us only a bit of knowledge, but it's a bit of knowledge that is backed up by reason. Every time an argument like this arises, it defines the border of religion that I cannot cross. You accept that these things happened by way of an all powerful God, but don't have any reason for that other than faith. Sure, there's a bible and prophets and the thousand year old institutions, but these people are the same humans that, as you note, are no Einsteins. Who is the religous equivalent of Einstein? St. Peter? Well, not everyone who has formed your belief system is a St. Peter, and even St Peter had his skeletons, not to mention his own agendas. Saying that the Bible is the perfect scripture because it is the word of God is equivalent to accepting all of science because it hasn't been disproved yet. Given the two options, give me science with faults. At least they're describing the universe and backing up predictions with experiments. I can't believe in something with the same human faults that has been passed down over thousands of years with no reasoning to that, just a book that is the word of God. |
I'm pretty sure I have posted this here before but my pastor did a series on the reliability of the Bible. My pastor is Jewish by birth, became a believer in Jesus as the Messiah and is a Scientist. Here is the link to his two sermons on the reliability of the Bible.
Go here: http://www.mcleanbible.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=2445 and then click on "View Series" under "Spiritual Boot Camp." The first two sermons are the ones I'm talking about (although the rest of it is pretty good, too). The third sermon "An Inspired Bible - So What?" is good, too.
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jrjo
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 09:23 Post subject:
| MechEngDropout wrote: | Every time an argument like this arises, it defines the border of religion that I cannot cross. You accept that these things happened by way of an all powerful God, but don't have any reason for that other than faith...
...just a book that is the word of God. |
I only reply this way on occasion with peeps I know can take it.
Your reply Mech deeply saddens me as a believer in eternal life and your outright rejection of the Word of God. 
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MechEngDropout
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 09:27 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | I'm pretty sure I have posted this here before but my pastor did a series on the reliability of the Bible. My pastor is Jewish by birth, became a believer in Jesus as the Messiah and is a Scientist. Here is the link to his two sermons on the reliability of the Bible.
Go here: http://www.mcleanbible.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=2445 and then click on "View Series" under "Spiritual Boot Camp." The first two sermons are the ones I'm talking about (although the rest of it is pretty good, too). The third sermon "An Inspired Bible - So What?" is good, too. |
I don't doubt that the Bible is accurate regarding historical events. That's how it was written, to give an account of the times. I'd expect the similar accuracy from a history textbook from the Civil War era. History is always written by the victors.
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wanttorun100
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 09:34 Post subject:
Point is consider all the things we look back at and think boy were they silly to believe that. His point was we’re not so different today. Remember this guy is a PhD in Physics. He still did active research into particle physics at the time. His plan was to have a great laugh at himself in Heaven one day. ‘I actually believed in electrons!’
He also used to do a thing about how all the science in the world was useless until an engineer did something with it. He was really popular with his colleagues I suspect.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 09:37 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: |
I don't think it's "egotistical" to try to understand how our world works and where we came from. I. |
Or how we work. All the advances in modern (and even not so modern) medicine are around because people decided to figure out how God's creation (humankind) worked. Would it have been better to squash that curiosity because it was "egotistical"?
| MechEngDropout wrote: |
You accept that these things happened by way of an all powerful God, but don't have any reason for that other than faith. |
I don’t actually have a problem if people want to believe things simply based on faith. If they want to believe the world is only 6,000 years old, that it didn’t rain for the first 1500 of that and that then a guy built a big boat to float away everyone worth who was worth saving, go for it. But then acknowledge that is a faith, not science, based belief. You can’t have it both ways. You accept carbon dating if it dates the Ark “correctly”, but discount it when it gets the dates of the Earth “wrong”. Don’t start an argument with the assertion that there is science to back up the thermo-dynamics of Eden, and the switch to a defense that the world is unknowable and we just have to take things on faith.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 14:38 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: |
I don't think it's "egotistical" to try to understand how our world works and where we came from. I. |
Or how we work. All the advances in modern (and even not so modern) medicine are around because people decided to figure out how God's creation (humankind) worked. Would it have been better to squash that curiosity because it was "egotistical"?
| MechEngDropout wrote: |
You accept that these things happened by way of an all powerful God, but don't have any reason for that other than faith. |
I don’t actually have a problem if people want to believe things simply based on faith. If they want to believe the world is only 6,000 years old, that it didn’t rain for the first 1500 of that and that then a guy built a big boat to float away everyone worth who was worth saving, go for it. But then acknowledge that is a faith, not science, based belief. You can’t have it both ways. You accept carbon dating if it dates the Ark “correctly”, but discount it when it gets the dates of the Earth “wrong”. Don’t start an argument with the assertion that there is science to back up the thermo-dynamics of Eden, and the switch to a defense that the world is unknowable and we just have to take things on faith. |
I accept things "by faith" and then if science backs it up that's wonderful. 
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 19:18 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | | camelia bedelia wrote: | | Gogirlgo wrote: |
I don't think it's "egotistical" to try to understand how our world works and where we came from. I. |
Or how we work. All the advances in modern (and even not so modern) medicine are around because people decided to figure out how God's creation (humankind) worked. Would it have been better to squash that curiosity because it was "egotistical"?
| MechEngDropout wrote: |
You accept that these things happened by way of an all powerful God, but don't have any reason for that other than faith. |
I don’t actually have a problem if people want to believe things simply based on faith. If they want to believe the world is only 6,000 years old, that it didn’t rain for the first 1500 of that and that then a guy built a big boat to float away everyone worth who was worth saving, go for it. But then acknowledge that is a faith, not science, based belief. You can’t have it both ways. You accept carbon dating if it dates the Ark “correctly”, but discount it when it gets the dates of the Earth “wrong”. Don’t start an argument with the assertion that there is science to back up the thermo-dynamics of Eden, and the switch to a defense that the world is unknowable and we just have to take things on faith. |
I accept things "by faith" and then if science backs it up that's wonderful. |
But how can you accept science when it backs up what you believe, and discount it when it doesn't?
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 21:18 Post subject:
!. no rain for the first 1500 years? ok, so plants didn't use water? livestock didn't use water and i guess being the "chosenpeople" meant you never had to drink? water tables dry out, aquifers recede and even the fact that human weren't industrialized yet does not mean we did not polut our waters. there's a reason you use the latrine downstream folks and guess what, your downstream of someone else. Streams can't form without rain unless you have bubling wells all over the place to sustain the wter levels.
streams feed rivers whick inturn feed lakes and oceans, well we know we can't drink saltwater...well maybe we could then and God decided oto alter that option too in a cruell twisted perversion. Any way back to my point. even in 1500years the human population along with the animal population would have poisoned the water along the narrow area of life that is described in the bible.
in regards to the silence of the Bible, i guess no other civilization could have existed either then and that Cain, Able and Seth must have been incestous with Eve to create new wives for them then.
IMO there is no GOD. maybe smarter beings. the Bible is not the word of God, it's the history of man along the mid-east as witnessed by man and told by man and re told and re-invented and retold ......and then it was decided by man 600 years after Christ what would be considered "good for the Empire" by the Niacene council. too many varibables to to state that the Bible is a verbatim quote from God the almigty.
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jrjo
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Posted: 07/12/06 - 22:22 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | IMO there is no GOD. maybe smarter beings. |
I'm always struck curious by the belief in "beings". Can you expand on that and what you mean/see/feel has more evidence for our existance than Biblical accounts?
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 07/13/06 - 08:24 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | HYPERASHEL wrote: | | IMO there is no GOD. maybe smarter beings. |
I'm always struck curious by the belief in "beings". Can you expand on that and what you mean/see/feel has more evidence for our existance than Biblical accounts? |
with as many stars, planets and moons the odds are in favor of other life forms out there. I see no reason why an alien planet/moon has not produced an intelligent being before we came along. To put this in context that the Christians can beleive the Bible itself states the Angels have Halos and Eziekiel was taken up in a chariot.
there are glyphs in Australia that have humanoid forms with "halos" which are quite often seen as helmets by scholars, and even flying machines that were made by the aboriginies.
the countless UFO sitings in so many cultures. granted i think most of them can be explained....but there are a few that seem to defy explanation.
must like your faith in God, i have faith that there are just more intelligent critters out there than us.
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 07/13/06 - 08:36 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | HYPERASHEL wrote: | | IMO there is no GOD. maybe smarter beings. |
I'm always struck curious by the belief in "beings". Can you expand on that and what you mean/see/feel has more evidence for our existance than Biblical accounts? |
with as many stars, planets and moons the odds are in favor of other life forms out there. I see no reason why an alien planet/moon has not produced an intelligent being before we came along. To put this in context that the Christians can beleive the Bible itself states the Angels have Halos and Eziekiel was taken up in a chariot.
there are glyphs in Australia that have humanoid forms with "halos" which are quite often seen as helmets by scholars, and even flying machines that were made by the aboriginies. Mayan and Aztec stories tell of flying creatures and a few of thier gods are winged. American Indian cultures also have winged gods, giant birds. most cultures have a creation story that have many of the same references as Genisis. granted some of the gnostics creation stories i think are best beleived with "magic mushrooms" though.
the countless UFO sitings in so many cultures. granted i think most of them can be explained....but there are a few that seem to defy explanation.
must like your faith in God, i have faith that there are just more intelligent critters out there than us. |
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jrjo
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Posted: 07/13/06 - 09:35 Post subject:
| HYPERASHEL wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | HYPERASHEL wrote: | | IMO there is no GOD. maybe smarter beings. |
I'm always struck curious by the belief in "beings". Can you expand on that and what you mean/see/feel has more evidence for our existance than Biblical accounts? |
with as many stars, planets and moons the odds are in favor of other life forms out there. I see no reason why an alien planet/moon has not produced an intelligent being before we came along. To put this in context that the Christians can beleive the Bible itself states the Angels have Halos and Eziekiel was taken up in a chariot.
there are glyphs in Australia that have humanoid forms with "halos" which are quite often seen as helmets by scholars, and even flying machines that were made by the aboriginies.
the countless UFO sitings in so many cultures. granted i think most of them can be explained....but there are a few that seem to defy explanation.
must like your faith in God, i have faith that there are just more intelligent critters out there than us. |
So for the sake of argument, let's say that IS the case. Then wouldn't you agree there is alien technology waaay beyond our comprehension? Perhaps even science that contradicts and defies the very laws of physics we hold as indisputable?
My point being, a faith in advanced alien cultures, ufo's or what else have you that are beyond comprehension with our teeny understandings of physics certainly adds more credence to someone like me that has a similar faith in intelligent design by a creator beyond man's understanding versus the 'science-crowd' that demands explanation at every juncture in accordance with science text books they've kept from high school? Donchathink?
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HYPERASHEL
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Posted: 07/13/06 - 10:18 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | HYPERASHEL wrote: | | jrjo wrote: | | HYPERASHEL wrote: | | IMO there is no GOD. maybe smarter beings. |
I'm always struck curious by the belief in "beings". Can you expand on that and what you mean/see/feel has more evidence for our existance than Biblical accounts? |
with as many stars, planets and moons the odds are in favor of other life forms out there. I see no reason why an alien planet/moon has not produced an intelligent being before we came along. To put this in context that the Christians can beleive the Bible itself states the Angels have Halos and Eziekiel was taken up in a chariot.
there are glyphs in Australia that have humanoid forms with "halos" which are quite often seen as helmets by scholars, and even flying machines that were made by the aboriginies.
the countless UFO sitings in so many cultures. granted i think most of them can be explained....but there are a few that seem to defy explanation.
must like your faith in God, i have faith that there are just more intelligent critters out there than us. |
So for the sake of argument, let's say that IS the case. Then wouldn't you agree there is alien technology waaay beyond our comprehension? Perhaps even science that contradicts and defies the very laws of physics we hold as indisputable?
My point being, a faith in advanced alien cultures, ufo's or what else have you that are beyond comprehension with our teeny understandings of physics certainly adds more credence to someone like me that has a similar faith in intelligent design by a creator beyond man's understanding versus the 'science-crowd' that demands explanation at every juncture in accordance with science text books they've kept from high school? Donchathink? |
my take on it is we were created by an intelligent being, that being is who rleigeons call God. the "mistake" is that we believed the power God possessed was beyond our comprehension when God came and checked on us his technology became miracles, his increased knowledge of things became omnipotence. There is science being proven as well as historical accounts from the Bible and ancient China. Myths have a base in truth, after that base they tend to get embellished, and exagerrated by mankind. that embellishment is what makes him GOD and not ET from the Gamma quadrant.
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Ms. Jenn
Fresh, Hot & Wild
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Posted: 07/13/06 - 19:42 Post subject:
God's days may very well be different than our days. It's kinda like dog years. One God day may have been a million years...or a billion.
We are imperfect beings, we are all less than he imagined. He imagined and created two perfect people, who blew it. It changed life as we know it. Before the disobeyance, there was no need or want for anything. God provided everything.
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Phar lap
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Posted: 07/13/06 - 20:53 Post subject:
| Ms. Jenn wrote: | God's days may very well be different than our days. It's kinda like dog years. One God day may have been a million years...or a billion.
We are imperfect beings, we are all less than he imagined. He imagined and created two perfect people, who blew it. It changed life as we know it. Before the disobeyance, there was no need or want for anything. God provided everything. |
God seems to have the terrible habit of using ghost writers for books which are full of ambiguities and are open to a wide variety of interpretations
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