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MechEngDropout
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
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Location: Off the grid
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 Posted: 12/04/04 - 14:32 Post subject: Bonds on the juice
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594
Barry Bonds says he didn't know the substances given to him were steroids. Do you believe him?
I personally don't. But I don't think it matters; you're responsible for what you put in your body. If you're taking it on faith and don't even ask, you deserve to go down for it. It's just as bad as intentional doping.
Next question: What's worse, taking steroids or betting on the game? I've heard a lot of people make comparisons and it seems to me like all of the sympathies are going to steroid users. It's much more commonplace, but that doesn't make it a lesser offense like many people are making it out to be. I think the steroid use is a greater wrong.
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HYPERASHEL
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Location: The South's Sauna, Atlanta
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 14:48 Post subject:
I don't either, with this whole BALCO disclosure being opened i think it will be interesting to say the least. unfortunately Miss Steph and I have two Holiday parties to attend to today. I might have to set the VCR up for this one though.
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prohemp
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Location: in the cradle of liberty
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Posted: 12/04/04 - 14:57 Post subject:
He didn't know?!?!?! Give me a break. Bonds has been asked about steroids non-stop the last few years. If he was simply taking stuff his trainer was handing him, wouldn't it have crossed his mind that maybe it was more than just flaxseed oil?
Anyway, anybody who's ever been at a gym for more than a day knows that the guys who are serious about working out, eating right, and taking supplements and/or steroids know a helluva lot about what they are putting in their bodies.
Regardless - I don't think steroids have anything to do with Bonds unparalleled hand-eye coordination, decision-making (in the batter's box, at least), and technique, so he would still be a great hitter with or without steroids. Steroids have helped his bat speed, helped his strength A LOT, and delayed his physical decline at this age.
Whatever MLB does at this point - there will now be a mental asterisk on every record from the recent past and into the future 1) now that we know that these drugs can be taken and not detected and 2) we can't say for sure whether numbers were inflated by the drug use or not.
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Gogirlgo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: No deal, stalker.
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Posted: 12/05/04 - 15:31 Post subject:
I don't even think betting on a game is any big deal, unless it causes a change in the outcome of the game. Steroid abuse is much worse--it's a violation of the fans, and the integrity of the game. Of course, there are some who would say the enormous salaries and all the crappola that goes along with that also destroy the integrity of the game.
The beauty of athletics is that regular people who work really hard can reach amazing heights in their sport. If they do that and are also using steroids, we'll never know what level they achieve without the drug and where the drug comes in. It cheapens the spirit of organized sport, and lessens the inspiration of the athletes.
Like this country needs any more fallen heroes.
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megawill
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Posted: 12/05/04 - 16:12 Post subject:
i don't think this is even really a 'news' story...most fans/followers of the game have 'known' (wink, wink) that Bonds, Giambi, Sosa, etc have been on the juice for years...
i say hall every mlb player in to be tested before xmas..you fail - you're suspended for a year without pay and have asterisks placedc by all their 'records'...
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gretriever
Hipster Doofus
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Posted: 12/05/04 - 16:43 Post subject:
What this will all mean:
1) This will be what gets a lot of people to give up on baseball - including those who went forgive-and-forget after the strike.
2) When Hank Aaron went after 715, it was a celebration. Granted, he had the media pressure, and the a-holes threatening him for surpassing a white man's mark. But there was an overall positive excitement about it.
Bonds on the other hand has had a rep of being not media-friendly, and not particularly fan-friendly. Throw the steroid admission into the mix, and his pursuit of Aaron's mark will make the Bataan Death March look like a romp in the park.
3) All baseball records, including Hall of Fame-related stuff, are going to be asterisked to death to the point of being meaningless. And it's not just the steroid players' stats that are affected. Former pitcher Jack McDowell said this week that pitchers, for example, could have better career stats had they not had to face players pumped up on stuff. Everyone loses.
Last edited by gretriever on 12/06/04 - 09:15; edited 1 time in total
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Pug
The Movie Geek
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Posted: 12/06/04 - 10:08 Post subject:
I do think steroids is the bigger sin in baseball because it directly changes the outcome of the game. It's cheating. I know that the penalties aren't in place for this yet, but any player caught using banned substances should be banned from the game for life. If Joe Jackson is out, Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi should be out.
Gambling can influence the outcome if done by a coach or player. The player or coach can help throw the game to get the desired outcome. At the very least, if a player or coach (in Pete Rose's case) is betting on the game, you don't know if the game you just watched was honest. Did every player on each time really try his best to win? Can we know it?
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RexRacer
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Location: A pancake house of ineffable crappiness
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Posted: 12/06/04 - 10:25 Post subject:
I think a major reason for this kind of abuse as 'how' various substances are banned. Giambi supposedly is OK because he was just injecting Human Growth Hormone, which wasn't on the banned list at the time, or so I read. Same with McGuire when he was taking the sex-drive drug that also amped him up but hadn't yet been banned.
I think all sports should issue a blanket ban of all performance-enhancing substances with the exception of a set list of items. Anything found in your blood that can be construed as a PE substance that is not on the allowed list, and you face serious sanctions.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 12/06/04 - 10:40 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
Baseball was almost shut down due to gambling on the sport back in the 20's. Every single minor league and major league player & coach knows this and the MLB rule about no gambling is posted in every single clubhouse in America. I don't really have an opinon on whether Steroids or gambling are a bigger sin to pro baseball, but to claim it isn't a "big deal" is a huge understatement.  |
To you, maybe. Not to me. I just don't think it's any big deal, regardless of its history.
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sonnylax
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Posted: 12/06/04 - 12:29 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | | I don't even think betting on a game is any big deal, unless it causes a change in the outcome of the game. |
Baseball was almost shut down due to gambling on the sport back in the 20's. Every single minor league and major league player & coach knows this and the MLB rule about no gambling is posted in every single clubhouse in America. I don't really have an opinon on whether Steroids or gambling are a bigger sin to pro baseball, but to claim it isn't a "big deal" is a huge understatement.
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Bill_Sev
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Location: Marietta, GA
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Posted: 12/06/04 - 13:30 Post subject:
Amen SONNY!
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gretriever
Hipster Doofus
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Posted: 12/06/04 - 14:21 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: |
but to claim (gambling) isn't a "big deal" is a huge understatement. |
Not if Pete Rose gets into the Hall of Fame.
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