Because it needed its own thread........
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camelia bedelia
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 Posted: 12/20/04 - 10:17 Post subject: Because it needed its own thread........
Laurie Ellen raised this question in the evolution thread:
| Laurie Ellen wrote: | | If it wasn't created, then it's not here for a purpose. And if it's not here for a purpose, then we are just here, by accident; and if we are just here by accident, we don't owe our existence to anyone, and we can do exactly as we please with only ourselves to answer to. |
My answer to her is "what's wrong with that".
What do you think?
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phillycat
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 10:24 Post subject:
I don't subscribe to the thought that if we were not "created", as opposed to being evolved, that we have no purpose. This whole idea of "owing our existence" to someone just baffels me. But then again, I consider myself an atheist who strongly believes in the science behind evolution.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 10:29 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | I don't subscribe to the thought that if we were not "created", as opposed to being evolved, that we have no purpose. This whole idea of "owing our existence" to someone just baffels me. But then again, I consider myself an atheist who strongly believes in the science behind evolution. |
what about the "we don't owe our existence to anyone, and we can do exactly as we please with only ourselves to answer to" part? Do we NEED to feel indebted to someone/something to live a good/meaningful life?
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phillycat
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 10:34 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: |
what about the "we don't owe our existence to anyone, and we can do exactly as we please with only ourselves to answer to" part? Do we NEED to feel indebted to someone/something to live a good/meaningful life? |
In my opinion, absolutely not.
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copteacher
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 10:41 Post subject:
I will not argue people's opinion or feelings on this as God has given us freewill to choose. We can choose to believe or not believe period.
I choose to believe, I will live and die with that choice. If you do not, you live and die with the same choice.
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jrjo
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 10:44 Post subject: Re: Because it needed its own thread........
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | My answer to her is "what's wrong with that". |
Of course you wouldn't let that line of thought apply to the environment, would you? If there's nothing special, nothing inherently purposeful, nothing demonstrated as a work of beauty by an intelligent creator, why care about the environment? Again, just my 2-cents, but environmentalists in my mind have tucked in their hearts some kind of believe that the earth has a special plane of existence and if they search long enough, it just might rise to the surface that the balance of life and beauty of it all point to more than an orbiting rock containing a million coincidences of chance to create every species, climate and interdependence.
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 10:46 Post subject:
I think it's possible to be concerned about the environment without according it holy-deity status. The thing is, we have to live here. And if we want our children to be able to do the same, we have to treat it carefully.
I think it's more a matter of pragmatism than anything else.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 10:57 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | I think it's possible to be concerned about the environment without according it holy-deity status. The thing is, we have to live here. And if we want our children to be able to do the same, we have to treat it carefully.
I think it's more a matter of pragmatism than anything else. |
1. I don't like to live in filth.
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jrjo
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 11:16 Post subject:
| Gogirlgo wrote: | I think it's possible to be concerned about the environment without according it holy-deity status. The thing is, we have to live here. And if we want our children to be able to do the same, we have to treat it carefully.
I think it's more a matter of pragmatism than anything else. |
You know I could build on this with ya.  If you're saying the environment needs to be healthy for our children, you suddenly put "a purpose" to existence, "children". And if those arguing we're nothing but cosmic accidents, children would have no place but a penalty for "paying when playing". No, children can't be put in to the equation of caring for the environment, that plays right in to the hand of a meticulous creator having a planet intricately designed to support generation after generation. If children are your logic, then all environmentalists would be parents, but that's not the case.
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 11:20 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: |
If children are your logic, then all environmentalists would be parents, but that's not the case. |
You think only parents can care for future generations?
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jrjo
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 11:24 Post subject:
| camelia bedelia wrote: | | You think only parents can care for future generations? |
Don't jump out of the scenario on me. This thread isn't about me or my thinking. It's about an existence without purpose, without design, totally accidental and totally living only for yourself. And yes, in that setting, with those intentions, then how can anyone not a parent be concerned about future generations?
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camelia bedelia
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 11:31 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: |
Don't jump out of the scenario on me. This thread isn't about me or my thinking. It's about an existence without purpose, without design, totally accidental and totally living only for your own purposes. |
It is possible for your existence to have purpose without believing there was a Creator - that creation of Earth has some grand designe. How I live my life gives it purpose. I know I have a short time here and I want to live each day right. It is also possible to live for a good live and others without believing there is a God telling you to. I do it because it is the right thing to do.
| Quote: | | And yes, in that setting, with those intentions, then how can anyone not a parent be concerned about future generations? |
Neices, nephews, friends, care in general for mankind.
Last edited by camelia bedelia on 12/20/04 - 11:36; edited 1 time in total
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Gogirlgo
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 11:35 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: |
You know I could build on this with ya. If you're saying the environment needs to be healthy for our children, you suddenly put "a purpose" to existence, "children". And if those arguing we're nothing but cosmic accidents, children would have no place but a penalty for "paying when playing". No, children can't be put in to the equation of caring for the environment, that plays right in to the hand of a meticulous creator having a planet intricately designed to support generation after generation. If children are your logic, then all environmentalists would be parents, but that's not the case. |
Nope. I just think we owe it to future people, doesn't have to my children, it could be yours. Because we don't have any other options, we have to live here.
But re: this philosophy that there must be some creator and this is the proof: I agree with CamBed. I don't think in order to live a good life you have to be threatened by the idea of a crappy afterlife. Why can't it just be that we live as kindly as we can b/c it feels good to do so?
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jrjo
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 11:36 Post subject:
CB...sounds like you do answer to a lot of people and you have some 'purpose'. Sounds like you have found a whole lot of "what's wrong with that?" to living a life with a purpose, owing something to decendants and answering to others than yourself.
Just an observation. 
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elkid
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Posted: 12/20/04 - 11:36 Post subject:
| jrjo wrote: | | If you're saying the environment needs to be healthy for our children, you suddenly put "a purpose" to existence, "children". |
Hardly. It means we have an obligation to society as a whole, and do not have a right to destroy the resources at our disposal for future generations. Your argument makes a huge leap, and is flawed as it insinuates that those who are childfree lead an existence with no purpose. Nuns, priests, and popes everywhere thank you for this extremely limited belief. Many of the greatest contributors to society were childfree. Remember that.
Back to our original argument, "If it wasn't created, then it's not here for a purpose", I say you're wrong. Penicillin would be a prime example of things created by accident that do have a distinct, valuable purpose.
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