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The first five books of the Old Testament (Genesis Ex Levit, Deut and Numbers) make up the Torah. That's where the 613 commandments we're supposed to follow come from. They don't recognize the New Testament.

There's no ignorance. Don't be afraid to ask. Otherwise how will we learn?

Frightened Inmate #2

How long does a typical 'church' session last? How is it different from Christian church?

Member

Have you experience first hand someone's hate because you are Jewish?

Queenie

Member

How long it lasts depends on what kind you are: Reformed, Conservative, Reconstructionist, or Orthodox. For practical purposes, the more literal your Judaism, the longer the service. Orthodox are there all day. Conservatives 9:30 to noon, Reformed, about an hour, an hour and a half. Reconstructionist is akin to Conservative in terms of how religious it is but it's got a more progressive, feminist bent to it. (Guess which one I am?)

It doesn't differ greatly from Christian service. There's worship, group prayer, singing, reading from the Torah. There's also another story that's told in Hebrew called the Haftorah, also chanted.

A major difference is that b/c Hebrew is read from right to left, books start in the back. I still pick up a book backwards when I'm in church. Synagogues that try to reach out to their nonJewish participants often have books that have the English translation as well as the transliteration, so you could say the Hebrew b/c you could read it in English characters were you so inclined.

Yes, I have felt firsthand hatred of Jews. A very stinging event, similar I'm sure to any other group who is being targeted for what they are instead of who.

Did you know that we're only 2% of the world's population? I'm not sure anti-Semitism is on the rise, as has been reported about Europe, but I think it's getting easier for people to publicly lump Jewish people worldwide with Israel, and specifically with Israel's foreign policy. So that if you condemn Sharon's lunatic policies, you can say "Oh those crazy Jews" and mean nothing more than his coalition, but the impact is that all of us are a bunch of nutters.

Member

I'm sorry, I didn't realize Alan had asked about shiva. This is the custom of mourning the dead and it's different from other people's ways of doing it. First of all, the immediate family all wear a black button with a black ribbon it that's ripped to show you they're in mourning. Secondly, it's a week long, and during that time, all the mirrors are covered, b/c you're not supposed to be doing anything but mourning. It's a great idea b/c it allows you to really focus on your grief. Also, there are little hard wooden stools for the family to sit on b/c they shouldn't get too comfy. People bring food b/c the family shouldn't cook either. They should just grieve. Every night, the rabbi comes and says some prayers that are for the mourners and there need to be 10 Jews present to do that. (I know of a guy who lived in Alabama who thought nothing of driving several counties away to help make the 10.) So if you ever go to a shiva, don't bring flowers. Bring some food, like some fruit and nuts. Shiva has to end when there's a holiday, though, and you can't sit shiva on the Sabbath. After that period of mourning, you go to synagogue and say a mourner's prayer for a year after the death, then just on the anniversary of the death.

Oompa Loofah

First off, I would like to say from what I have learned/seen of Judaism as a faith and religion--it is beautiful and so amazingly deep in so many ways. I love reading what scripture (the Bible) means in it's original Hebrew. That is one amazing language--very poetic and full of wordplays that are amazingly interwoven into the Bible.

I have not yet read the Torah-but fully intend to. Are there different translations of the Torah like there are of scripture? I only know of a few female Rabbis is this still very prohibited or are things changing there as well?

What time do services usually start and what day(s) of the week are they on? And are visitors allowed? How does one go about visiting without causing offense? I would love to go sit through a service!

Member

Well they don't recognize it because they don't recognize Christ as a saviour. To them, he was a historical figure, but not more than that. They do think the Messiah is coming. They just don't think he's coming back for a second time. So the NT isn't very meaningful to them.

Are some of you wondering how I, Go, manage to hang regularly in a Catholic church given the explanation above? The answer is that I think there's a lot to be learned from Christ without having him take on a saviour role. A lot of people ask how Bryan and I can practice both and it always comes down to (conspiratorial whisper) "But what about, you know, Jesus?" I always say, "What about Jesus? Groovy guy, worth emulating. What else do you need to know?" That there is the definitive discussion-ender.

Frightened Inmate #2

How do you get into Heaven?

Queenie

Member

Such great questions from everyone.

I'm sure there are different translations in that some are for kids, but it pretty much stays the same. The Hebrew can only be varied so much. You're right. Hebrew is lyrical and beautiful. And phonetic, which helped me when I had to learn it in one summer. Also, not that you asked, it's different from Yiddish, which is a mix of Hebrew and German and some Russian that most Jews from Eastern Europe spoke.

There are a lot of women rabbis, but not in the Orthodox group. They're extremely traditional. One time a male rabbi said, "A woman belongs on the bimah (pulpit) like an orange belongs on a Seder plate." So now, in a lot of progressive Jewish homes, there is an orange on the Seder plate, too.

You can go to services. Anyone can. They're on Friday nights and Saturday mornings. The Torah comes out on Saturdays (and Monday and Thursday mornings) but not on Friday nights, so the Friday service is a lot shorter. The only thing you need to know is that when the Torah is out, you stay in the sanctuary if you're in, or stay out if you're out. Stand when everyone else stands. And as I say, the book starts from the back.

Frightened Inmate #2

Oompa Loofah

Member

I guess I don't get how Jewish people could follow the first part of the Bible, accept it so dutifully as to following the way it says to wear the hair, but just completely ignore the second half, because it says that Jesus is the Messiah. Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand. I've always wondered about this.

The Bible clearly states how, why, and when Jesus came to earth, what and who he was. How is it that Jewish people don't believe what it says; but they believe the first half of the Bible.

Also, I don't get why, if they didn't see or believe in Jesus and his works of faith and miracles, why they considered him a threat enough to make sure he was brought to death.

Well it's just not the second half. It ends for them at the first half. You're talking about a group that's been practicing a religion for almost 5,800 years. They were around before the second half was, and so for them there's no need. The Torah is everything they need.

Excellent question about the threat. As I said, the very powerful priests were threatened by this guy who had been said to perform miracles. It threatened everything they were. In old Judaism, there were three groups, the Kohane or priests (people named Cohen and Coen are the modern-day relatives of them); the Levites, the learned people the modern day descendants of whom are named Levy or Levinson, and the Israelites, the rest of the people. What the priest told you to do, you did. If they said, "Say X about this man" you did. The priests played a major role in the lives of people and taught them how to live and performed all their major rituals so if they told you to do something, you did.

Member

The idea of Heaven is a Christian one. Jews believe in an afterlife but I don't think it's about clouds and harps and angels and such b/c there's no iconography in Judaism. Even God is represented by a burning bush. You have to do good works and be a good person just like in any other religion, and there is a judgment day waiting for you. But it's never really described exactly what the afterlife looks like.

A Seder plate is the plate of symbolic items we talk about at Passover. Things like a shank bone, a hard boiled eggs, bitter herbs, matzah. Stuff like that. No oranges, until lately.

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