An American President ...a discussion
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GaRebelRunner
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 Posted: 06/06/04 - 07:06 Post subject: An American President ...a discussion
:: Moderator Note :: This topic is a thread of posts separated from the original "American President". Let's have a discussion here and keep the other strictly a place for folks to post a condolence as they see fit.
| genie wrote: |
RIP, Ronnie....you fought a gallant fight to the end and replacing you will be impossible.
Too bad our friends at CR can't have the same respect. 
Don't go over there unless you really wanna get pissed off. It's not pretty. |
Well Genie, he was not the greatest President to many of us during his time in office. To some extent he is getting the same respect he gave others during his life, which was none to those whom he disagreed with in his narrow opinions of the world. His family has my sympathies, but I have the same sympathy for Reagan's death that he had for AIDS victims
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copteacher
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 07:26 Post subject:
I am resigned to let history judge Reagan.
Nixon was judged pretty fairly even though many did not like what he did.
Let's mourn over the death of a president first then debate. This is no time to debate things like this.
Love RR or hate him. He was a leader of this country. This is no time to play political games.
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genie
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 09:18 Post subject:
| GaRebelRunner wrote: | | genie wrote: |
RIP, Ronnie....you fought a gallant fight to the end and replacing you will be impossible.
Too bad our friends at CR can't have the same respect.
Don't go over there unless you really wanna get pissed off. It's not pretty. |
Well Genie, he was not the greatest President to many of us during his time in office. To some extent he is getting the same respect he gave others during his life, which was none to those whom he disagreed with in his narrow opinions of the world. His family has my sympathies, but I have the same sympathy for Reagan's death that he had for AIDS victims. |
| thegman wrote: |
There are times to play politics. There are times to be respectful of those who have died.
I am a firm believer that you can tell an awful lot about a person's character by how they treat their foes, rather than how they treat their friends. |
 I agree. Well said by Po Po also. It's time both parties in this country showed an equal amount of class once in a while.
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DCRunningDiva
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 11:00 Post subject:
| thegman wrote: | | genie wrote: |
Too bad our friends at CR can't have the same respect.
Don't go over there unless you really wanna get pissed off. It's not pretty. |
There are times to play politics. There are times to be respectful of those who have died.
I am a firm believer that you can tell an awful lot about a person's character by how they treat their foes, rather than how they treat their friends. |
Don't go over to the Clubhouse - you'll see a side of people you never thought possible! UGH!
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Orange Bubble
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 11:42 Post subject:
| genie wrote: | | GaRebelRunner wrote: | | genie wrote: |
RIP, Ronnie....you fought a gallant fight to the end and replacing you will be impossible.
Too bad our friends at CR can't have the same respect.
Don't go over there unless you really wanna get pissed off. It's not pretty. |
Well Genie, he was not the greatest President to many of us during his time in office. To some extent he is getting the same respect he gave others during his life, which was none to those whom he disagreed with in his narrow opinions of the world. His family has my sympathies, but I have the same sympathy for Reagan's death that he had for AIDS victims. |
| thegman wrote: |
There are times to play politics. There are times to be respectful of those who have died.
I am a firm believer that you can tell an awful lot about a person's character by how they treat their foes, rather than how they treat their friends. |
I agree. Well said by Po Po also. It's time both parties in this country showed an equal amount of class once in a while. |
I believe Reagan said of AIDs patients: Those who live in sin die in sin.  Pretty intolerant and ignorant statements to forgive and forget.
But still, I am awfully sad that he passed away and that his final years were so sufferable.  I do believe that he was a good and decent man.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 11:44 Post subject:
| DCRunningDiva wrote: | | thegman wrote: | | genie wrote: |
Too bad our friends at CR can't have the same respect.
Don't go over there unless you really wanna get pissed off. It's not pretty. |
There are times to play politics. There are times to be respectful of those who have died.
I am a firm believer that you can tell an awful lot about a person's character by how they treat their foes, rather than how they treat their friends. |
Don't go over to the Clubhouse - you'll see a side of people you never thought possible! UGH! |
unfornuately, I did not take you advice....I "ran" over there. I am in shock!! I have lost a lot of respect for several posters......oh well, big deal, it's just the internet!!!
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Orange Bubble
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 11:47 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: |
unfornuately, I did not take you advice....I "ran" over there. I am in shock!! I have lost a lot of respect for several posters......oh well, big deal, it's just the internet!!! |
I went before I checked in here and looked, of course. What is it with everyone's obsession with ERunner??? I mean, when is enough enough. And I really am shocked that some posters over there, whom I regard as sensetive and kind-hearted, can be so...mean!
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 12:05 Post subject:
| Orange Bubble wrote: | | genie wrote: | | GaRebelRunner wrote: | | genie wrote: |
RIP, Ronnie....you fought a gallant fight to the end and replacing you will be impossible.
Too bad our friends at CR can't have the same respect.
Don't go over there unless you really wanna get pissed off. It's not pretty. |
Well Genie, he was not the greatest President to many of us during his time in office. To some extent he is getting the same respect he gave others during his life, which was none to those whom he disagreed with in his narrow opinions of the world. His family has my sympathies, but I have the same sympathy for Reagan's death that he had for AIDS victims. |
| thegman wrote: |
There are times to play politics. There are times to be respectful of those who have died.
I am a firm believer that you can tell an awful lot about a person's character by how they treat their foes, rather than how they treat their friends. |
I agree. Well said by Po Po also. It's time both parties in this country showed an equal amount of class once in a while. |
I believe Reagan said of AIDs patients: Those who live in sin die in sin. Pretty intolerant and ignorant statements to forgive and forget.
But still, I am awfully sad that he passed away and that his final years were so sufferable. I do believe that he was a good and decent man. |
It was a very ignorant thing he said, I believe most of the general population was still quite ignorant to the disease. When I was a child, I had a severe case of excema. People's reaction to me were quite horrible as they thought that it was something that was communicable--I don't think they were necessarily trying to be mean. My classmates NEVER teased me. It was always someone new and didn't understand. As they found that their skin would not become red and oozy they became tolerant. I do know that my reaction to AIDs changed drastically over the years. I think Reagan showed us a point in time, where we were at. To hold this against him, would be for me to hate the first child on the playground that looked at me and said "Ewwwww...what's that??"
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 12:28 Post subject:
The other issue everyone is forgetting about is the internet has changed our ability to post opinions. In the past opinions on deceased persons were relegated to the news media, who had to follow certain protocols to be nice. Anyone with a differing opinion had to send a letter to the editor which may or may not be published to a very limited audience days later.
With the internet that is no longer true. I'm sure the mainline news media from Fox to CNN and all major newspapers will follow the protocol and speak only kind words of Reagan. Which is fine and good.
But now everyday people affected by the policies and/or politics of the recently deceased can give their opinions free from editorial comments, even if those opinions are not popular and they do not have to wait until someone has decided a proper time of mourning has passed.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 13:48 Post subject:
....well sometimes we are affected by the policies of presidents not so recently deceased.
My recent conversation with my mother (very liberal):
mom: I hate Bush because he making cutbacks to my social security.
me: He's trying to making it last longer and conserve what little is left, though it isn't going to work. A ponzi scheme cannot last forever.
mom: I don't care if it lasts forever. I want what I deserve and paid in.
(my mother was a SAHM since the age of 1
me: so, you can't survive the cutbacks? But you want to place the burden of supporting social security for the next 20 years on the backs of your grandchildren that know when they reach old age....the vault is empty.
mom: I'll be dead. I don't really care.
me: thank you FDR 
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sonnylax
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 14:58 Post subject:
Sue,
Don't want to hijack a perfectly good thread... But your story is an excellent example of what many people in this country have come to view our government -- a giant "hand-out" machine of services and money.
I wonder how we managed to survive as a country prior to Social Security.
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genie
Master of Prissface
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 15:43 Post subject:
| Orange Bubble wrote: | I believe Reagan said of AIDs patients: Those who live in sin die in sin. Pretty intolerant and ignorant statements to forgive and forget.
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As far as that quote goes, doesn't anyone think it odd that it was never mentioned when it was first supposedly SAID by him, sometime in the 80's, but rather many years later, coincidentally after he had been diagnosed with Alzheimers, and NO ONE has gone on record that was anywhere near Reagan that actually substantiates that he did in fact say those words? I have yet to see real proof that he actually said them and that someone who was there to witness it corroborates the (liberal) media's story. When I do, then maybe I'll change my mind. But I think sue has a good point--a lot of people were more ignorant about the disease then than they are today--unfortunately too many still are--and if it WAS said, which I highly doubt, since nothing since then is an any indication that he was really that "hateful" a person, then it was a testament to the ignorance of our times.
And we still spend more money on a per patient ratio on AIDS research than any other disease, including cancer, and Reagan was one of the drivers of those efforts. He may not have agreed with the lifestyle, but he certainly wasn't as discriminatory as some people would have us believe. AIDS is a very clever virus that has baffled scientists for many years but I think his administration did a hell of a lot more than Clinton's to start the ball rolling with regards to both disease research AND education about safer sex practices. You show me where that's not true.
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kattzoo
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 17:29 Post subject:
While I tend to agree that upon a man's death, people shouldn't be so quick to cast stones, GaRebelRunner made it clear at the begining of his post that this thread was to talk about RR's politics. If we don't like it, we don't have to post, or even look.
History will judge President Reagan eventually. I will at least remember him fondly, and I think a good deal of people will. I profess to know little about his policies except in broad strokes... I have a jaded view on the Presidency. I look for him to represent us well, and make me feel good about my country. Reagan did that for me at least.
Now, where's a good Bush/Kerry thread when I need it. Wait, wrong forum.
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GaRebelRunner
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 17:37 Post subject:
| rtpd113 wrote: | I am resigned to let history judge Reagan.
Nixon was judged pretty fairly even though many did not like what he did.
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I actually liked Nixon when he was President, even after the Watergate scandal. Since that time, things have come out that indicate he was possibly the most paranoid President we ever had. But in his case, as opposed to Reagan's I did not feel alienated as an American citizen and felt a lot of remorse for him and his family when he died.
In Reagan's case I did not care for him (I voted John Anderson his first term), Nancy, Michael nor his administration with the exception I thought his surgeon-general (Koop?) was excellent. He was very dishonest during the Iran-Contra affair. Nancy was tacky enough to request President Carter and Rosalyn to move out of the White House early so they could begin moving in.
But since it's a matter of showing proper respect before I post my true feelings about Reagan, how long would be a proper waiting period in this day and age of the internet? How does waiting for whatever is an appropriate mourning time make any difference in what you think of people's reflections on an individual? Some will be positive. Some will be negative.
Reality is there is no good time for criticizing a man that many Americans hold in virtual Sainthood, rightly or wrongly.
Just one last thing and I'm going to shut up about this entire Reagan incident. This thread does not occur if Genie had not invoked criticizing the other board. As most of you are aware this board is very tame compared to the heated discussions we entertain on the other board. Had she simply posted her message and left out criticizing how the other board is handling their feelings on Reagan, I would never have responded on this board. I do take into account when responding to issues on this board that you are somewhat more laid back and not into the fisticuffs we can get into over there. I never criticize messages on one board over the other. I find both of them interesting. But if you are going to criticize the comments of posters on the other board, then it becomes fair game for us to respond in the manner we would on the other board.
Last edited by GaRebelRunner on 06/06/04 - 17:48; edited 1 time in total
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genie
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Posted: 06/06/04 - 17:46 Post subject:
Oh, I would SOOO love to see what your thoughts were on the "appropriateness" of waiting til mourning was over to post negative character assessments if it was the beloved Bill Clinton being discussed.
FWIW, I agree with you on Nancy, I never liked her from the start and I thought she was a thorn in the side of the country, but not as bad as Hillary ever. I do think the First Lady casts more influence over public opinion of the President than people really understand, including some recent first ladies. Whatever you may think of Dubya, Laura is a class act all the way. I can't say the same for that witch Ter-rayza (there you go, Kattz.... ) but that's a topic for another thread.
I think JJ did the right thing by moving these comments to a separate thread and I had a similar idea earlier when I saw which way the thread was headed. The point here is just what he said. A thread put up for those to mourn the loss of a former leader of our country and a great part of our country's history should be just that, and a thread to debate, degrade or otherwise discuss the man's character, politics, personal life, etc. should be just that. Is respect such a foreign concept anymore that your "right to express my opinion, regardless of how popular" should override common decency? If so, that's really sad. I lost my temper in that thread mainly because I saw all the filth oozing over at CR and I'm as guilty as anyone of turning our thread into a political one. Thank you, JJ....for having the sense to separate them.
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