An American President ...a discussion

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http://www.laststory.com/Ronald%20Reagan%20Fact%20and%20Fiction.htm

After reading the comments in Cool Running i really don't see what the big fuss is about. We each have our own views and nothing going to change that.

Reagan was the 1st President i voted for.

the power of debate is the greatest thing we all have here, to chide a person based on their own opinion of person is both pointless and waste. How you feel and what you felt won't change your opinion of a person dead or alive.

I give Red credit for laying out in Cool Runinng his opinion and gracefullly rebuking each comment with both class and reason.

I have no opinion of Reagan postive or negative. i was once a stanch supporter of some of his agenda. As I've gotten older I see them for the "smoke" it was, but will give him his props for taking america and brining it back when it was on the brink.

S99

However.......

For all his good there were many faults:

For the record:

FICTION: Ronald Reagan won the Cold War

Just as Neil Armstrong didn’t single-handedly land on the moon, Ronald Reagan didn’t single-handedly win the Cold War. Nor did Reagan’s policies single-handedly win the Cold War. Thousands of Americans for over three-quarters of a century played important roles in combating communism—including Democrats Jack Kennedy and Harry Truman. Different policies at different junctures were required to stem the tide of Soviet aggression. Reagan’s philosophy certainly wouldn’t have worked in the early 1940s, when America needed an intimate alliance with the Soviets to battle the Nazis, so one could even argue that flexible restraint deserves as much credit as Ronald Reagan. The Cold War was ultimately won through an amorphous American foreign policy that included Reagan’s hard-line approach, but also included pragmatism and softer diplomatic measures.

FACT: Ronald Reagan played a pivotal role in ending the Cold War

Reagan’s ideology might not have been suited for the 1940s, but it was perfect for the 1980s—and it’s hard to be critical of the final result. The Soviet Union was struggling mightily with economic inefficiencies and a dwindling morale. Reagan pushed them over the edge by joking about how easily he could initiate a bombing campaign over Moscow, overseeing a huge military buildup, and sinking large amounts of money into S.D.I.—a space program that, if successful, would render the Soviet’s nuclear arsenal obsolete. The Soviet Union tried to match Reagan’s military buildup and basically went bankrupt. They simply lacked the economy to keep pace with the United States of America. Gorbachev in particular became infatuated with S.D.I. and tried repeatedly in negotiations to push Reagan to cease and desist from its development, for without its nuclear capabilities, the U.S.S.R. was essentially a third world country. His arms tied financially, Gorbachev couldn’t fund the Soviet-orchestrated governments in the Eastern Bloc—and without Soviet funding, these governments quickly toppled. The Berlin Wall crumbled to earth and soon the Kremlin followed. Reagan’s policies directly lead to the Cold War ending without a single gun firing, because unlike previous administrations, Reagan’s ultimate goal wasn’t to coexist with the Soviets, but to destroy the Soviets. And the timing of current events provided him with the opening he needed to succeed.

FICTION: Reagan’s tax cuts caused huge deficits

Reagan’s tax cuts resulted in an economic boom—and government revenue dramatically increased during his eight years in office. The only trouble was that government spending out-paced the increased revenue. If the tax cuts resulted in a budget shortfall, then you could blame Reagan’s tax cuts for the deficit. But the opposite happened; the tax cuts triggered an economic renaissance and the revenue collected by the government shot right through the stratosphere.

FACT: Reagan ran huge federal defects and incurred immense debts

I know, I know—technically speaking, it’s the job of Congress to write legislation, including the federal budget. But Reagan never proposed a balanced budget to Congress during his eight years in office. To skirt criticism, Reagan instead argued that a line item veto and a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution were essential to balancing the budget—and did little if anything to compel Congress to pass these amendments. Clinton, incidentally, balanced the budget without using a line item veto or a balanced budget amendment.

FACT: Reagan was a brilliant person

A liberal once ruefully labeled Reagan as “an amicable dunce.” But the truth of the matter is that political competition is so fierce that a stupid person cannot succeed over the long term. And Reagan succeeded in two of the fiercest professions in the world—Hollywood acting and politics. He was a successful radio broadcaster, B-level actor, and was elected president of the screen actor’s guild. He then was elected—and reelected—Governor of California. Afterwards he became the torch-carrier of the conservative movement, pieced together a new political coalition, and defeated an incumbent President. Four years later he won reelection—carrying 49 of the 50 states—and upon retiring wrote a best selling book about his life. That’s an awful lot for a dim bulb, wouldn’t you think?

FICTION: Reagan disliked homosexuals

Some people make this claim, figuring that Reagan’s slow response to AIDS was a byproduct of homophobia. On the contrary, Reagan knew many homosexuals in Hollywood and considered several of them close, personal friends. One of the fiercest critics of the planned CBS miniseries was Marc Christian, the homosexual partner of the late Rock Hudson, who wrote: “The notion that a Ronald Reagan was a homophobe strikes me as silly beyond belief. Not only did he have several gay men on his staff when he was Governor of California, he called my lover, Rock Hudson, when he was on his deathbed just weeks before he died of AIDS and wished him well and voiced his and Nancy’s concern and prayers. The Reagans had known Rock for years and knew he was gay (as did most of Hollywood). …The point is, Reagan could have ignored Rock’s illness and didn’t.”

FACT: Reagan did little to battle AIDS

Critics point out that Reagan wouldn’t even mention the word “AIDS” for years and his own Surgeon General C. Everett Koop complained of Washington’s slow response to the AIDS epidemic. Reagan did write moving letters to people suffering of AIDS where he extended his deepest sympathies, but his administration’s inability to move quickly arguably lead to thousands of deaths. Reagan could’ve used his Presidential bully pulpit to warn thousands of citizens—particularly in the gay community—of AIDS but chose not to.

FICTION: Reagan was a warmonger

Reagan saw the world in black & white: America, freedom, and democracy were good; the Soviet Union, oppression, and communism were bad. And instead of working to coexist with communism, his mission was to eradicate communism. He unabashedly called the U.S.S.R. an “evil empire” and joked about bombing the Soviets in mere minutes. But when the U.S.S.R. shot down an American plane, Reagan didn’t react militarily. And when over 200 marines died in a terrorist attack in the Middle East, Reagan opted to withdraw the troops. He did authorize some minor military missions, including an invasion of Grenada and a bombing raid in Libya, but these were extraordinarily limited in scope. Reagan actively sought and aggressively promoted his image as a cowboy, but his own conduct didn’t match that image. On top of it all, Reagan also offered to pass along S.D.I. technology to the U.S.S.R.—which isn’t consistent behavior for someone hoping to engage in war.

FACT: Reagan deserves credit for the economic boom of the 1980s

Jimmy Carter handed over to Reagan an economy that was a complete mess. Inflation shot through the roof, cities faced gas shortages, and the country was mired in a deep malaise. Reagan first clamped down on inflation, intentionally driving the economy into a recession, and slashed taxes to spur economic growth. And the end result was an economic explosion that fueled America’s resurgence.

FICTION: The Iran Contra Affair was a disaster

Legalities aside, the actions stemming from the Iran Contra affair were positive. American hostages in Iran were freed and the Nicaraguan Contras did eventually prevail over the communists.

FACT: The Iran Contra Affair was a violation of American law

The reason Ollie North’s conviction was overturned was because of an immunity agreement his attorney brokered prior to his testimony. What Reagan knew and when he knew it remains unclear, but given his penchant for delegating responsibility, it’s entirely possible that he was in the dark about the actions of Ollie North and John Poindexter. On the other hand, we do know that Reagan believed in the Domino Theory and deemed it essential for the Contras in Nicaragua to prevail over the communists. But since Reagan claimed that he couldn’t remember meeting or discussing the covert mission with his staff, he survived the scandal.

FICTION: Reagan caused an explosion in homelessness

Under Reagan, the economy exploded and the overall quality of life for Americans across the board (and in every demographic) increased dramatically. There were fewer people out of work and millions more jobs created when Reagan left office than when he entered office. Of course, there still were homeless people in America. Many of these homeless men and women were people that left mental hospitals after liberal organizations lobbied the courts to “free” them from involuntary confinement. But since the economy exploded under Reagan’s watch, millions of jobs were created, and government spending on social programs increased dramatically, how on earth could the Reagan administration be held culpable for homelessness?
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Master of Prissface

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Scorch
Well, I have to disagree. I don't think it was admirable or classy of Red. And it wasn't because I'm a staunch supporter of Reagan or his presidency--I voted against him, twice, and I formed this opinion before any of his "classy" rebuttals. I got no further than the last line of the nice little tribute of his first post and felt that it was a nasty reference--even to the grave of your sworn enemy. It wasn't forming an opinion about a president, it was just plain and simple, crummy.

But that's my opinion. I'm entitled to it. Red will not get my respect on any board, henceforth. I'm sure he does not care. And frankly, I don't give a d@mn either

and as Scandal would say

Good bye to youuuuuu. Good-bye to you.

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The people that are cold and unfeweling are those who on the one hand value everything this country stands for.....untill someone decided hey what about the other side of the story....and then its nothing but crying foul and wanting to show respect.

Do you care to expound? So the opposite would be that those of us that feel that spewing negatives about a president before the body's cold....does NOT value everything this country stands for?

....and what would our country stand for? Looks good on paper, Scorch, but you would not pass Philosophy 101. But you talk a good circle thumbs up

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Reagan on Human Rights:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Human%20Rights%20Documents/Reagan_HumanRights_HRW.html

Ronald Reagan and AIDS

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2805.html

Last But not least (for now)...... A look at how Bill Clinton benefitted from Ronald Reagan policies.

For the Record.

http://www.sideshow.connectfree.co.uk/JustForTheRecord.htm

Just for the Record

The Reagan Years (FY1982-FY1989)

The Reagan administration ran budget deficits in each of its eight years. The lowest deficit was $188.6 billion in FY1989 and the highest was $311 billion in FY1983. The Reagan years added $1.94 trillion to the national debt and averaged annual deficits of $242.23 billion.

The Clinton Years (FY1994-FY2001)

The Clinton administration ran deficits in each of its first four years and surpluses in each of the last four years. The largest deficit was $213 billion in FY1994 and the largest surplus was $219 billion in FY2000. The Clinton years paid down a net $14.2 billion of national debt and averaged a surplus of $1.78 billion.

Summary

The twenty years of budgets prepared by Republican presidents increased the national debt by $3.8 trillion. The average yearly deficit under Republican budgets was $190 billion.

The twenty years of budgets prepared by Democratic presidents increased the national debt by $719.5 billion. The average yearly deficit under Democratic budgets was $36 billion.

Just for the Record Part II

Reagan 1982-1989
In the Reagan years, the federal workforce increased by 3,000 employees.

Clinton 1993-2001
During the Clinton years the number of non-defense government employees fell from 1,256,000 to 1,151,000 for a decrease of 105,000 employees.

Conclusion
Under the 20 years of Republican administrations the number of non-defense government employees rose by 310,000.

Under the 20 years of Democratic administrations, the number of non-defense government employees rose by 59,000.

Of the 369,000 employees added between 1962 and 2001, 84% were added under Republican administrations and 16% were added under Democratic administrations.

Just for the Record Part III

Economic Growth

Reagan 1982-1989
The economy grew in seven of the eight Reagan years. The percent change in GDP for those years is –2.0%, 4.3%, 7.3%, 3.8%, 3.4%, 3.4%, 4.2% and 3.5%, respectively. The average of those years is 3.5% GDP growth.

Clinton 1994-2001
The economy grew in each of the eight Clinton years by the following percentages, 4.0%, 2.7%, 3.6%, 4.4%, 4.2%, 4.9%, 3.8% and 0.3%, respectively. The average for those years is 3.5% GDP growth.

Conclusion
The economy grew in 19 of the 20 years in which Democratic Presidents submitted a budget and in 16 of the 20 years in which Republican Presidents submitted a budget.

For the twenty years for which Republican presidents submitted budgets, the average rate of GDP growth was 2.94%.

For the twenty years in which Democratic presidents submitted budgets, the average rate of GDP growth was 3.92%.

Unemployment

Reagan 1982-1989
During the Reagan years the unemployment rate was 9.7%, 9.6%, 7.5%, 7.2%, 7.0%, 6.2%, 5.5%, and 5.3% respectively. Those eight years average an unemployment rate of 7.3%.

Clinton 1994-2001
During the Clinton years the unemployment rate was 6.1%, 5.6%, 5.4%, 4.9%, 4.5%, 4.2%, 4.0% and 4.8%, respectively. Those eight years average an unemployment rate of 4.9%.

Conclusion
For the twenty years in which Republican Presidents submitted a budget, the unemployment rate averaged 6.75%.

For the twenty years in which Democratic Presidents submitted a budget, the unemployment rate averaged 5.1%.

Inflation

Reagan 1982-1989
During the Reagan years, the inflation rate was 6.2%, 3.2%, 4.3%, 3.6%, 1.9%, 3.6%, 4.1% and 4.8%, respectively. Those eight years average an inflation rate of 4.0%.

Clinton 1994-2001
During the Clinton years, the inflation rate was 2.6%, 2.8%, 3.0%, 2.3%, 1.6%, 3.2%, 3.4% and 2.8%, respectively. Those eight years average an inflation rate of 2.7%.

Conclusion
For the twenty years in which Republican presidents submitted a budget, the inflation rate averaged 4.96%.

For the twenty years in which Democratic presidents submitted a budget, the inflation rate averaged 4.26%.

Growth of Federal Spending

Reagan 1982-1989
During the Reagan years, the growth rate of total Federal spending was 9.95%, 8.40%, 5.38%, 11.10%, 4.65%, 1.38%, 6.01% and 7.44% respectively. Those eight years average a growth rate of 6.79%.

Clinton 1994-2001
During the Clinton years, the growth rate of total Federal spending was 3.72%, 3.69%, 2.95%, 2.61%, 3.21%, 2.98%, 5.10% and 4.20% respectively. Those eight years average a growth rate of 3.56%

Conclusion
For the twenty years of Republican submitted budgets the average percentage growth of total Federal spending was 7.57%

For the twenty years of Democratic submitted budgets the average percentage growth of total Federal spending was 6.96%.

Next, we look at the growth of non-defense Federal spending.

Growth of Non-Defense Federal Spending

Reagan 1982-1989

During the Reagan years the percentage growth of federal non-defense spending was and 7.70%, 6.71%, 4.34%, 11.08%, 3.37%, 0.70%, 7.20% and 8.52% respectively. Those eight years average a growth rate of 6.20%.

Clinton 1994-2001
During the Clinton years the percentage growth of federal non-defense spending was 5.53%, 5.38%, 4.10%, 2.78%, 4.01%, 3.10%, 4.71% and 4.09% respectively. Those eight years average a growth rate of 4.21%.
Conclusion
For the twenty years of Republican submitted budgets the average growth rate of Federal non-defense spending was 10.08%.

For the twenty years of Democratic submitted budgets the average growth rate of Federal non-defense spending was 8.34%. Federal non-defense spending was 8.34%.

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Scorch......I don't give a hoot about liberals dissing the 40th presidency. Did you miss my point?

The original post bothered me: "they'll stand there laughing, tramping on the dirt". I do not find "they'll stand there laughing, tramping on the dirt" classy in anyway. I find "they'll stand there laughing, tramping on the dirt" highly offensive. But, if you find "they'll stand there laughing, tramping on the dirt" so darn classy, if you go into the dirt before me, I will make sure that I take out the following sentiment ad, upon news:

To keith, always remember, "they'll stand there laughing, tramping on the dirt"

I am so positive that your dearly beloved will find it a "classy" gesture on my part.

Also, do you not find it not ironic, that another person that finds "they'll stand there laughing, tramping on the dirt" is Canadian? I'm sure his opinion is politically driven. Yes, the reason I find "they'll stand there laughing, tramping on the dirt" offensive is that I consider myself a moderate.

Let me know about that ad, tay?

Master of Prissface

An American President ...a discussion

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