A difference in perspective
|
|
 
|
|
|
|
|
|
omega lambda
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 4691
|
| Back to top
|
|
 Posted: 01/26/04 - 19:30 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | omega lambda wrote: | | Americans live BIG. Way too BIG. And too many Americans think they are entitled to more than they earn. Bugs me BIG. |
On the other hand, if more folks worried about their own backyard and less about their neighbor's house & lifestyle.... we would all be much better off. No offense and don't take this the wrong way... but who are you to judge my lifestyle? I also don't understand what you mean by Americans that are entitled to more than they earn.  |
I'm just a simple-minded old coot who thinks that there are too many people using up too much of the world's limited natural resources. We all have to live on the same planet, so if I think you're using more than your fair share, you're pissing me off.
As for Americans who think they're entitled to more than they earn; I'm referring to the people who willingly live on the edge, spend more than they earn because they think they deserve more (a bigger house, a nicer car, etc.). I am NOT talking about the people who work their asses off and are barely making it, and don't have 3 cars in the garage, or a 4000 sq ft house. There's a BIG difference.
And before you get your undies in a wad, I'm just throwing out numbers. Don't take it literally.
|
|
|
|
|
ShannonG
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 4858
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 19:36 Post subject:
We bougth our little house five years ago and are now living with pressure from the inlaws to sell and buy something 'better'. MIL's credo is that you're always going to have a mortgage, so why not have a BIG mortgage and have the fanciest house possible.
Me, I am counting the days until in 12 years I am mortgage free.
|
|
|
|
|
kattzoo
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 3813
Location: Happily at the back of the pack
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 20:05 Post subject:
I used to have the attitude that debt didn't bother me...after all, when I died, I didn't have anyone to pass it on to. Fortunetly, I've opened my eyes a bit since then. I no longer need a new car (although I often want one), my 1500 sq. house is big enough for the 2 of us, and we've been free of any credit card debt for a few years now.
I too think that people get caught up in having things and it comes back to bite them later. I know it did me.
|
|
|
|
|
copteacher
Adjunct
|
|
|
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 20588
Location: Teaching in the Halls of Justice
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 20:11 Post subject:
I would speak from experience since we make right around that you have a higher living standard. We bought a house that is probably just above what we can afford for right now...but in two years it will be just right income vs. cost wise.
more money did not change much but we were able to do a lot more things with our money. i.e. set aside more for kids school, take some out for retirement.
it does not create more problems if you talk together how to use it.
|
|
|
|
|
runaroundsue
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 18 Sep 2002
Posts: 6629
Location: supporting GREENer pastures
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 20:46 Post subject:
| omega lambda wrote: | | akern wrote: | | I used to drive by large homes in awe of how much money those people had. Now I drive by and think: " HA! They don't have lots of money, they just owe lots of people." |
What a smart cookie you are!
In my humble opinion, I also think jrjo and John Stossel's economist are correct. I don't know for sure what the standard of living is though...did it include owning a home? I'm not sure you could qualify for a loan on $50K in my neck of the woods, BUT there are other issues as well.
Americans live BIG. Way too BIG. And too many Americans think they are entitled to more than they earn. Bugs me BIG. |
True about owing lots of money......I grew up with a family that didn't buy unless you had cash. House....cash, car (always over 10 years old)..cash......my dad finally got a credit car when I was in high school because he needed a new battery for the car and Sears wouldn't take a check.....so he opened an account.
Yet...the more money my husband makes the more we owe.....this year we took out 2nd mortgage on house ....mortgage on our land...but the way tax laws and interest rates are...unfornuately in debt is the way to go. We DO have the money to pay it off....but it isn't wise. This country is screwed up.
sue
|
|
|
|
|
omega lambda
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 4691
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 21:58 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: | True about owing lots of money......I grew up with a family that didn't buy unless you had cash. House....cash, car (always over 10 years old)..cash......my dad finally got a credit car when I was in high school because he needed a new battery for the car and Sears wouldn't take a check.....so he opened an account.
Yet...the more money my husband makes the more we owe.....this year we took out 2nd mortgage on house ....mortgage on our land...but the way tax laws and interest rates are...unfornuately in debt is the way to go. We DO have the money to pay it off....but it isn't wise. This country is screwed up.
sue |
So true, so true. In fact, in this country (I don't know about others) you are penalized for doing the right thing; saving your money, saving for retirement, saving for your kidlets education, saving for the inevitable emergencies. We get credits for being in debt up to our ears, but we're taxed repeatedly for having a safety net.
|
|
|
|
|
msparks
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 3182
Location: Jammin' at the Frim Fram, Frippin' in the Krotz
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 22:24 Post subject:
| omega lambda wrote: | | I'm just a simple-minded old coot who thinks that there are too many people using up too much of the world's limited natural resources. We all have to live on the same planet, so if I think you're using more than your fair share, you're pissing me off. |
Aha! One of those ecology freaks, eh? You must be an old coot! You probably practice your Three R's: reduce, reuse, & recycle. Why, I get the feeling that you learned that stuff in the late 60's/early 70's. At least, that's when I learned it. You probably remember the first Earth Day! And from the sound of it, you probably aren't too keen about some of those gas guzzling behemoths out of Detroit, are you? I think it was Bill Mahre who referred to them as Ford Screwyoumobiles...please substitute another word instead of screw and make it alliterative with the word Ford.
The problem is that their idea of fair share isn't the same as ours.
(Now would be a good time for PH to step in and repeat his news about breaking the shackles of Big Oil...way to go, baby!)
|
|
|
|
|
omega lambda
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 4691
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 22:36 Post subject:
| msparks wrote: |
Aha! One of those ecology freaks, eh? You must be an old coot! You probably practice your Three R's: reduce, reuse, & recycle. Why, I get the feeling that you learned that stuff in the late 60's/early 70's. At least, that's when I learned it. You probably remember the first Earth Day! And from the sound of it, you probably aren't too keen about some of those gas guzzling behemoths out of Detroit, are you? I think it was Bill Mahre who referred to them as Ford Screwyoumobiles...please substitute another word instead of screw and make it alliterative with the word Ford.
The problem is that their idea of fair share isn't the same as ours.
(Now would be a good time for PH to step in and repeat his news about breaking the shackles of Big Oil...way to go, baby!) |
I wouldn't call me an ecology freak, but I am old. I still buy stuff that is overpackaged and fills my trash and recycle can with the stuff from a single product. And I am trying to reduce and I'm forced to recycle by my city. I'm not much of a reuser though. I'll work on it! 
I'm not extremely well-traveled, but I've been to enough other countries to know that, in general, we're a bunch of spoiled brats here. We have an excess of everything we want, and we still want more, and we want it to be bigger. So while we're paying the least amount for gas, we are also driving the cars that use the most. And we probably have more cars on the road than anywhere else. But American overconsumption of nearly everything is embarassing.
I love this country, and don't really have any desire to live anywhere else. We have a lot of room for improvement here, and I just wish we, as a country, were better neighbors.
|
|
|
|
|
sonnylax
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 22:57 Post subject:
| omega lambda wrote: | | I'm just a simple-minded old coot who thinks that there are too many people using up too much of the world's limited natural resources. We all have to live on the same planet, so if I think you're using more than your fair share, you're pissing me off. |
Define fair share... you old coot!
Seriously, I find it incredibly humorous that many folks (inside and outside this country) thing we are not good neighbors. Yet, we are the first place people look to when they need our dollar bills or our trade. Our economy pretty much drives the entire globe and we are the most generous country in the world.
|
|
|
|
|
sonnylax
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 23:03 Post subject:
| omega lambda wrote: | | As for Americans who think they're entitled to more than they earn; I'm referring to the people who willingly live on the edge, spend more than they earn because they think they deserve more (a bigger house, a nicer car, etc.). I am NOT talking about the people who work their asses off and are barely making it, and don't have 3 cars in the garage, or a 4000 sq ft house. There's a BIG difference. |
This is a necessary side product of such a free and capitalistic society. We can't prevent stupid people from making stupid financial decisions. Nor should we, IMHO. The other option is always socialism. 
|
|
|
|
|
sonnylax
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 2942
Location: Living in a lollipop and unicorn world
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 23:12 Post subject:
| akern wrote: | This coming from the same person who thinks people with tattoos are trashy, uneducated, insecure and hiding something.  |
I think there is a wee bit of difference between personal taste of tattoes and the topic in hand.
|
|
|
|
|
bburgoyne26
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 2959
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 23:46 Post subject:
Man, the cost of living varies a lot across this big ole country though. You can get a pretty decent little house here in Ft. Worth. I was wondering how much a small house would cost in Salida or Leadville Colorado, which are very modest towns compared to Breckenridge, Vail, etc., or even a city like Boulder. Wow! Even a little fixer up shack cost a LOT more than my boring little tract house in the suburbs. I'm trying to think about a place that I can semi-retire when the kids are on their own, and I would like a place where I can mt. bike, trail run and maybe even fish a bit. All I want is a small place about the size of what would be considered a "cabin", with a place for visitors and storage...say 1200 sq ft or so. I may end up living in a van down by the river! (anybody know where that line comes from?)
|
|
|
|
|
kristin31
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 8045
Location: Caught in the crossfire of childhood and stardom
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/26/04 - 23:59 Post subject:
I used to think that more was better and that putting up with a miserable (to me) Corporate American dog-eat-dog backstabbing existence was worth it because I didn't want to give up the money. It took getting down-sized to realize that I can live a lot more simply than I thought, even in a higher cost of living environment. And doing so makes me one heck of a lot happier. We might not have as much as the neighbors, but we could be living in Africa in a dystenry-infested tin shack on the other hand.
Seriously, I'm not trying to sound preachy or self-righteous but we're not starving, have a dry roof over our heads and the dog is happy also. What else do you want? So yes, $100K a year would be liveable again and we wouldn't need any more.
|
|
|
|
|
omega lambda
Member
|
|
|
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 4691
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/27/04 - 00:24 Post subject:
| sonnylax wrote: | | omega lambda wrote: | | As for Americans who think they're entitled to more than they earn; I'm referring to the people who willingly live on the edge, spend more than they earn because they think they deserve more (a bigger house, a nicer car, etc.). I am NOT talking about the people who work their asses off and are barely making it, and don't have 3 cars in the garage, or a 4000 sq ft house. There's a BIG difference. |
This is a necessary side product of such a free and capitalistic society. We can't prevent stupid people from making stupid financial decisions. Nor should we, IMHO. The other option is always socialism. |
This is an attitude, and I realize we can't prevent people from spending their money the way they choose. I'm not advocating legislation of any kind, or a change from capitalism. I just don't like, especially when my neighbors are whining about the cost of college tuition when they pay for 5 cell phones, dinner out all the time, 4 SUV's in their driveway and a house that's way too big.
| sonnylax wrote: | Define fair share... you old coot!
Seriously, I find it incredibly humorous that many folks (inside and outside this country) thing we are not good neighbors. Yet, we are the first place people look to when they need our dollar bills or our trade. Our economy pretty much drives the entire globe and we are the most generous country in the world. |
I don't know if I can define "fair share". I suppose what I mean is if we tallied up all of the remaining natural resources, and divvied them up fairly, US consumption would far exceed that of other nations. Some of it is fair, we are also large producers. Some of it isn't. We don't consume just consume for need, we also consume for pleasure. I think it is our pleasure that's out of whack.
Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. Urban sprawl is a good example. Sure, folks get a nice big house, with a nice yard, on wide, quiet streets. The drawback is that we aren't close to anything anymore. There's a price to be paid, and I don't think we've done a good job of weighing pros and cons for the long term.
|
|
|
|
|
spongebob
Former FFL Champion
|
|
|
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 3602
|
| Back to top
|
|
Posted: 01/27/04 - 00:39 Post subject:
Just so everyone knows, I don't feel guilty about having my basement.
Continue...
|
|
|
|
| |
All times are GMT - 4 Hours
|
|
|
